Pest perspectives EP 25 - Anna Mollins - Pest Minds - Pest Perspectives

Hello and welcome to Pest Perspective episode #25 This

week we have on Anna Mullins from Vera.

Right here we go, Veritas Pest Consultancy.

Have I done? Have I said it right again?

There we go that's it. You told me that, but I messed

it up this time round so I'll be able to see this time and also

Anna Mullins part is the called lady in charge of the Pest Minds

initiative as well, which we'll talk about later.

Very well. So have you had a good day?

No, you've been all right. Yeah, it's been a busy day,

summer holiday, so it's kind of juggling work.

Are you in the first week? Are you in the first week of it?

Yeah, first week SO started yesterday and kids are in day

camp today. Mine started earlier than that.

Mine went the second week I was finished, not last week.

The Friday before that I did does.

That mean you go are you? Are you because you've got a

longer week? Longer.

No, what it is, all it is is our school.

The kids school. They finish later but they add

it up in time over the year. So in October when everyone else

gets one week, my kids get 2, they do so then because they

finished later like 3:50, they add the time up over the years.

So they get to finish early, but they go back.

Pretty much all the schools go round there, but pretty much the

same time. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, no, when you get when

you've got an Academy, you don't have to follow.

They don't have to follow what the government tells them to.

OK, True. They make their own rules as

long as they do enough hours, etcetera, whatever they 10. 3:50

pick up must be quite. You can get that little bit more

in when it comes to being a working parent.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it will be.

It's yeah. Because I remember when I went

to school, I mean secondary school, I finished the 2:50.

I did the secondary school. I think they still, I think they

still finished that school at that time, I don't know, long

time ago that was. So do you want to tell people

what you do in your current role at the minute?

OK, like in previous roles in other places, I am a woman of I

do this and I put on many hats. So I came into Veritas

officially, I'm a business development manager.

I think that's it's just something to put on on a piece

of paper really. So what I do at Veritas is

football and and the team and in various ways.

So one minute I'll be consulting on some bird netting.

I I'll the other minute I'll be talking at one of the shows

trade associations. I will be doing the marketing,

I'll be doing the business development, I'll be doing some

consultancy work or some auditing.

It's a whole, whole kind of mixed bag of things training as

well. But it is, it's all the stuff

that isn't directly pest control.

So anything else that's sort of satellites around pest

management, OK, controlled services, that's what that's

what we as a business do and I kind of put myself wherever is

necessary or needed, so. OK, what was a thank you for

something Paul didn't? Thank you for making the quiz

book volume 1. Yes.

Because it suggests us more, suggests us more, doesn't it?

Volume. One that came up that did.

We will be coming out with that. So yeah, he's, he's got Paul's

got a fantastic Bank of knowledge.

And we decided, yeah, he's been egging to put something through

together. And I said, all right, let's do

this and make it an annual thing.

And it's really nice. I love the fact that it's a

little bit of quirky lunchtime fun and I had way too much fun

making it with him and doing it. And the fact that you can get us

at 15 BPCA registered points just from doing the book.

There's more than half a year's worth of points.

It's 12. It's 12, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, it's 1225.

Yeah, 12, Yeah, 12 puzzles. 25, Yeah, 25 pages.

So yeah, 12 puzzles. It's good because it came up and

I've got a whole story about what, why, why It was quizzes.

I thought I didn't expect the story.

He got his now. It all started at the PPCAI was

told as a trainer, it has to be fun.

It can't just be off a spreadsheet or whatever.

And that's when he started coming up with a more curative

ways of learning. Yeah, that's where it where it

all came from. Paul's fantastic and it is It's

capturing beyond the PowerPoint presentation, dull training.

It's death by PowerPoint is not what Veritas is about.

It's all about reaching everyone's unique little

learning patterns and ideas. We're all a very practical it's

a practical job. So it's, there are obviously a

collection of of the the science pods within us, but actual hands

on learning with activities and other ways that aren't just

trying to absorb some form of knowledge in between trying to

get your job done. Is is it's not what we're about.

We're about, yeah, interesting, fun, new ways of learning.

I mean, they aren't. I'm going to complete it by the

end of the year, but I keep asking Paul to because now I'm

obviously with Big Basis Prom and the British Press Register.

I've got no way of registering with the British Press Register

because you know how. I have contacted Sean a few

times asking if I can get it registered.

I have no response so fast. I will consume.

Monthly chase you can prod however you want you can.

Look at the problem. I will prod him.

OK. I didn't mention to Paul, I

would like because you've got with basis you've got to send

photographs well on there that would be very difficult that

would on there you. Don't actually when it comes to

basis prompt, you can send me or that send Veritas the evidence

of you having done it and then we can register your points.

That will be easier because at the minute you just get an auto

response that they can't help you.

At the minute they do, yeah. So we, we, yeah, yeah,

absolutely. So we've got as a, as a trainer,

we have online sort of setups that we can add and manually

add. So just as long as you send me

some pictures to prove that you've done it, then I'll.

Yeah, but I will when I've done it, I will.

I've I've learned a lot as well because I've been thinking now

some of the things I don't, I don't know a lot about to be

honest. I mean, so the, you know, the,

the gas, the the. I.

Know nothing about that and I was going to my dad but this and

to be fair, he's done the ticket a long time ago and he he got

most of them right. I didn't know any of the answers

really. I'm not, I'm not trained in it.

I'm not. That's it.

And this is the whole point the the the collection of the book.

It's like you're not expected to be able to do the whole book.

If you do them fantastic, but it's about finding those little

answers. There's a few in there that are

just like actually, you know what, I I might need to look

this one up. I'm not quite sure.

And have you, you or is it what page is it?

The page page 49. There is a there is a typo in

there. And I'll give you extra bonus

points for trying to figure it out.

There's a typo. There was one.

There was one of them where I thought, this ain't right.

I don't know if I have to look after.

Is it in? What is it in Wasps?

No, it's not in Wasps, it's in vertebrates.

OK. OK, I'll have to.

Have a look later. When we, yeah, we launched it in

November. So around press tech time is

when we launched Volume 1 and we'll be doing Volume 2 and

every year we'll have a new batch.

So those who are doing their points and enjoy it and like

learning. I think it's good.

I'll be honest with you, if anyone's listening, I, I, I

mean, I don't know how people are struggling to panicking

about their points for next year.

Because if you're with the British press register with my

podcast, you can, you know how basis limit your amount of

podcast you do or the this British press register, you can

claim as much as you want. You can, but crude, crude price

is separate. You need to do that separately.

But in general, it's quite easy. I mean, I said to someone, get

this book. Well, I mean, look at it.

I said, OK, got paid for delivery, but you're really

looking at a pound of CPD point. I said you can't get no better,

but that says it's fun learning, isn't it?

It is. And you're not having to do

anything outside of you. You're not having to leave work

for half a day a day. You can just put it in amongst

your day-to-day and do it lunchtime, your lunch break,

just whipping a puzzle or two, half one whenever.

Yeah. It's the most creative strength.

It's it's the most creative thing I've seen in CPD world in

a long time. I've just bought the cards as

well, but the van with a clip. I've bought them the the but I

can't remember whether you. Went to the clip, to the lease.

Yeah, I brought in the clips. Yeah, I mine the clip version.

I love hanging around for the van, for the van as well.

But I, I came up against some people online.

They were like, oh, don't you think this is a bit old

fashioned? I went, yeah, but I said it's a

better way of learning. But it says, you know, a lot of

the AI apps, I've I've tested them and they've actually got it

wrong or I've put the photo in four different times and I've

got four different results ideas.

So at least for this, it's more about learning what they

actually look like. And I'm don't get me wrong, I

know what's looks like etcetera. I'm not, I'm not like probably

if you were to look at something, you'd be like, boom,

straight away. But I want, I want to be like

that. I want to be like that is as so

and so beat or whatever I do. That's why I got it.

It comes from practise and and regularity and there are so many

of the pest insects, particularly the insects anyway,

that we don't come across regularly that you may have

learned and you may have been fantastic or fantastic scores

and your RSPH, whatever it was level 2 or beyond.

But if it's not a regular reoccurring pattern in your

day-to-day job, then it easily it just slips and everything

sort of so. Right, there's a.

Saying reminds you so. That's a saying you don't.

Yeah. If you don't use it, you lose

it. So if you don't do that pest,

you will forget. Over time you will.

But yeah, just got. My favourite thing about the

cards, particularly when you're with customers or clients or,

or, or anyone who's in the industry getting them out and

just kind of highlighting it's not just cockroaches and this

and that here client look at look at all the scientific

knowledge that we know and we've learned that all these pest

species, it's yeah, my favourite trick is getting, I think it's

at least 8 to 10 of the stored product beetles, the ones that

look very similar and kind of go here you go.

Any of these could be in your factory or something like that.

And they're just like ah OK, I I saw one and assume they're all

the same thing, but no, they're not so.

They're all different. They are.

Does that make difference? But when you tell them there's

like so many species and subspecies and that many, that

many, it's ridiculous. Yeah, it is.

There's that many there it is. But yeah, no, I just think I

think Veritas, there we go. I think it's something unique to

to learning. I do that that's been needed

because it's mostly, I mean, podcast is a big change, isn't

it? A lot, a lot.

You can do more learning with podcasts, but mostly before that

it was either region magazines or go to on the road days or

courses, etcetera, which is all good.

But this brings a new new spin because I I recommend this book

to people. I think get some CPD and buy

this book. You learn a load, get 12 points.

You don't. When we have this conversation,

so if I am at one of the the MPTA on the roads or at a forum,

I'm like, yes, it is that many CPD it yes, it's fun learning,

but it is actually that much CPD and you do somebody get

something out of it. And there's no regulatory of

having to try and do learning of get your points for the year.

It's not. It's just it's a bit of fun and

it's great and you can just have your CPD points pretty much done

for the year. Yeah, you can.

I'm like 42 something. That's something I'm trying.

I'm trying to beat last year's. I got passed by level 2 last

year and let's do a clarification.

I passed my RACPH Level 2 awarding pest management because

if you say level 2 now, people presume you're on about the

lower one. But you have to clarify now like

75 last year without. So I'm seeing if I can hit more

than that without it, but we'll see.

We will. We.

Will and it is interesting. So, so if you're on the pest,

are you on the pest register and you're or you're on both you

said. I'm actually on both people or

not. I won't, I won't.

I won't be able to beat the points level of the British

Press Register though. I won't be able to beat that

different. Schemes are all on different

sort of levels, aren't they? In terms of what?

Right? It's because they're a self

you can register if you listen to a podcast, what you've

learned, etcetera. And based on how long the

podcast was, you get points where basis it's literally set

to six points only for the whole thing.

But yet I'm I'm a now CPD provider who has been given 10

points where people can only use 6.

I don't understand why they give me 10 for the year.

It's the same, it's BPCA registered, so I'm with them as

members of BPCA and our team. But it's the same process there,

self registering, explaining what you've learned, how you've

learned and you do then also reflect on that.

OK, actually what can I use and utilise?

And you can, yeah, you can use your own job and what you're

doing day-to-day because that is learning on the job, learning

and and things from here and there.

There's no sort of you must hit this certain.

It's like, no, no, we all learn differently.

We all observe different things as well.

So self registration is, I think, the way to go with CPT It

really is. Well, I do because I meant I, I

emailed Scott and I from the BPC and I I didn't know how it

worked. I just said I got this podcast

and I said it's a learning podcast that says are you

interested? He says no, he says we are, it

doesn't work like that. I said, what do you mean?

Oh, it's all self register. So if we tell them to register

their CPD with us, they've just got to tell us what they've

learned and how long for. So they could have all your

podcasts if they wanted to. He says.

It's it's up to them. So self registering looks like

the way forward. This maybe one basis might do it

one day. You never know.

You never know. Who knows?

Who knows, Who knows? Indeed, it's, it's a different

way. And with the changing the, the

upcoming changes, obviously for the, the whole structure of, of

pest control learning and, and qualifications as well, that's

going to kind of make a change in terms of how people are

thinking of learning as well. So as well as you see the crew

deadline as well coming up, everyone's sort of it was, it's

always been a bit of a battle for the CPD.

But actually, if you now think about it, you're thinking of

learning all the time and you're doing it.

You're like, actually I am learning and I'm able to meet

all these kind of criteria and I'm doing it anyway.

So just reflection. Oh yeah, I mean it's I'm going

to have to make some videos on it because there is people still

stuck about how to get the points for next year.

I look like there's information in all the magazines.

The podcasts have mentioned them, Newsletter Centre.

I imagine the BP Sayer doing the same thing as the MPTA they've

got in their magazines as well. I don't know how much more we

can do because it's everywhere what you do and it's quite

simple, but people are panicking over it.

They. Are, well, it's what, what the

question is, people are either panicking or they just aren't in

that frame of mind where I need to be doing learning.

So it's it's all there when you're willing to go and do it

and actually acknowledge doing it is is kind of a it's getting

out of that. There's a pre concept isn't

there of of it being oh CPD I've got to do this for the year.

Yeah, I think it's changing slowly, but it is, I think.

I think it is changing because you just got to say it from a

different way point of view. You just got to say that your

customers, well, it's helping you be the better version of

what you want to do in your job, just become better.

Even if you don't use all that knowledge in your job, you still

know it and you've learned something fresh.

Yeah, you never know when it's going to come up as well, so.

It is. So how did you get into the the

industry then? Where was your first start in

the industry? I mean, I can go all the way

back to university and I did an ecology and conservation degree,

so I did that. I remember doing a, my

dissertation was based on the study of leaf litter degradation

and unnatural cockroach species in the UK and things like that.

So it started there. But then I ended up, I wanted to

go into through proper ecology based surveying and I was going

to be a bat specialist in surveying.

But you have two years of voluntary work to get your

special species licence. And I lived in Brighton at the

time. There was no way I could afford

a flat and get do 2 years of voluntary work.

So I was like, right. So I kind of went off and did

jobs XY and Z and somehow ended up in back into the sort of area

by going into pest Fix when it was when it was a teeny tiny

little company. It was just the two England

brothers and a warehouse guy and me.

And it was literally four people in a little office.

And I, I, I think I don't know how I got the job.

It was related to the fact that I was moving and my degree and

just other other experience. Are you sorry?

Just jump in. You did great.

Are you? Are you not?

Can you be called a doctor? No, I've not got a PHDI have

ABSC honours it's. Still cool BCE.

BSc. BSc.

OK, the. Bachelors of Science.

Very nice. That is all the clever people

keep coming on my pocket. That's cool.

I mean, for me, I just, I, I didn't know where to go next

after, after like high school. So it was like, and then it's

like, OK, you can do university and I'm like, OK, fine, I'll

just roll into it. What do I kind of like?

And I'm just ended up in, in that sort of world and then came

out with a degree. I think I, I became more

independent at that point when I was in, in my wee infancy.

Not that was quite a long time ago now, but yeah.

So, yeah, having the degree side of it, it's definitely, it's a

step into science and that's and and studies and and research and

and that sort of world. That was nice.

But I did leave that behind for a good eight to 10 years because

I couldn't couldn't carry on with it what I I thought I

wanted. So yes, I ended up in Pacifics

and then. New to the industry as of pest

control completely in that respect, I have my science

backing. But in terms of the pest world,

I knew nothing and then just sort of rocked in.

Did my RSPH Level 2 award in pest management, did it all

online I think and then the exam in a few months and then I just

kind of developed from there. So I was there for new or nine

years. So what do you do?

What do you do from when you started to where you where you

like went through? Was it?

Did you do a whole? Was it another job with all the

hats? Dan, a multi hat.

So Dan and Dan was a pest management professional who

wanted to supply bird, bird specialist products to the

little man. So effectively you didn't have

to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds to get decent

discounts. The whole point of pest fix when

it first started was flat rate any trade pest controller so

that everyone was on the same playing field, particularly as

obviously a lot of pest controllers.

They want to be sole, sole traders and they like their own

working environment. They didn't want to be part of

something big. So I kind of came in because

that was growing and developing and I was helping with initially

sales admin, debt control, then I went into sort of marketing

and helping with the warehouse and product development.

And then just through training and learning and everything, I

just kind of grew and grew and grew and we grew the business,

got extra people in, developed our product range more and it

just naturally grew and I grew with it.

So wherever I was needed, that's kind of where I was.

And I was constantly doing all sorts of different things at all

different times. And any question, it was like,

Anna, Anna, can you, can you? Yeah, I can answer that for you.

We can do this. We can get it done.

And any project that came forward, it's like, right, Anna,

I've got this idea, make it happen.

And I was like, OK, fine. Yeah.

And then I think it was only last year actually.

Now it's coming up to a year that I left Pacific.

So I left it got to a point it's a a large corporation type.

It was going for the corporate route.

And I was like, you know what, I've grown this child as far as

I can grow. I want to keep it ethos and

stuff, but it needs to grow and develop on its own.

And I want another challenge. I want something else.

Yeah. Can I remember?

I remember, sorry. I remember you announced you

were leaving that entire industry.

Then you're getting back. You did, yes.

Three weeks, 3 weeks, I was like, I didn't know what I was

doing. I was like, well, I know this is

time for me to go. I need to do something else.

I want to use my skills and have it make more of an impact in

terms of helping a small business or, or kind of

developing from infancy to larger.

And I ended up just rocking into, I think it was a chimney

cowl products. So ironically, it was actually

higher, no relationship. It was more the fact that I

happened to know the guy who worked there.

It was down the road from where I live so.

He was. Like, yeah, you know what?

I knew you from a baby group. Let's take you on.

So. But after three weeks, I was

like, I miss, I miss the pest industry.

And I remember in my interview to this place, the chap said to

me, he's like, look, I've been, I've looked on Facebook, I've

seen all your, you've done lots of interviews and things and

public stuff. And one of your interviews

worries me. It was with the, I think it was

one of the Pest X or something. And it was with BBCA.

And I was explaining how if someone's in the pest industry,

you rock into the job, either you're spat out within a couple

of months or you're in it for life.

It kind of just happens that way.

Not many people kind of come into it and then stay for a few

years and then go somewhere else.

And he says, should I be worried?

I was like, no, I invest myself, whoever it is, I put in heart

and soul like, and I did. But then I just thought, I miss

it. I really do.

So then I knew Paul Westgate from years and years prior.

So he would be, he did some aluminium phosphide training for

pest fix and some insect identification training that I

got him to come do. He did audits as well because it

is a store of pesticides and he works with bases to do that.

So I knew him from years and years and years.

And it just so happened that we had, we had to sit down and he

was like, you know what, I think I'm ready to take Veritas.

We need, we need something. And I was like, all right, I can

help you do that. And then just sort of happened

and now I feel like I'm back in the same situation where I

started in Pesfix. I'm now in Veritas, but in a,

and definitely within a company, which it's ethos is, is exactly

what Pesfix was at the beginning.

It was, it's the alignment of it is fantastic.

And it's not out to make money. It's not out to like take over

the world and buy companies or do, I don't know, lots of

different things that you can see in the, in the industry.

It's about bringing the better best of the best pest control,

bringing it out of the pest controllers, but educating the

public, educating the commercial aspects of it particularly.

So we do field biologist inspections for a lot of food

factories and things that running under certain standards.

And it's kind of highlighting how good pest controllers are

and what worth that they can bring to a business and in

auditing and supporting them. It's, it's, it's all about

bringing the best of best management.

And I think that is where the industry is going.

Generally. We're all trying, or at least I

can see the ones who are striving, they're the ones that

are talking about it trying to be better in themselves.

You know what you say with the change in the CPD attitude,

everyone. I think it's starting to change.

It used to be used to be a bit of a Oh no like a task and now

it's like more like I want to learn.

Yeah. And then I, I remember when the

crew scheme first came in, I was part of the development with not

the development of it, but the, the auditing side of it and, and

the, the general resistance to change and the oh God, I've got

to learn and everything. It was just like, no, I know

what I know and and I know I'm doing a good job.

And you're like, well, do you know these changes?

How? How have you learnt?

How is this going to change and how does this better you?

And the same with the loss of the famous Ficam.

It's it's not a subject. I know it's not a subject.

I know, I know. Lighting how skilled a pest

controller is compared to, as we always read, the dodgy window

cleaner who thinks you can just do it down there, you know, now

they don't have. Well, no, you give out of it.

People will have cheap ass, they will pay pennies just to get a

quick fix. People, public, general public

see a silver bullet and go, you know what?

Yeah, yeah, that's I'll, I'll make it and you're like that.

But now they haven't got this beautiful instant kill option.

I will say something, all the window cleaners have still got

it. Don't worry, they've all still

got it. Stockpiles of it they have I.

Know anyone who didn't stockpile for a certain level?

I'm not, I'm not on about pest controls or about window

cleaners. There's a lot of them.

But yeah, let's skip over that. Let's it will run.

Out. It will run out, but it is.

That's when you'll notice the real level playing field.

Yes, it's highlight the skills of the pest management industry

and it's only when they're going to, it's going to, they're going

to fall off a Cliff because they just don't have that scientific

knowledge and the learning behind it and it's bringing back

the worth in the pest controller.

Oh no, it definitely is, but if only we had to have certificates

to buy professional insecticides.

I know the likes of the big companies won't sell the to the

public if they're not like an insecticide, but you can go

online and literally buy any insect.

It's frightening. They've got on the back event

side, but you can go on any website and buy whatever you

like. You can, and there's no

certificate required, so maybe one day there'll be 1.

Maybe, but saying that? You don't know how to use it.

Well, they don't know how to use it and they'll fail anyway.

But it's the, the way that redenticides have gone.

Obviously now it's it's started at so level, but it was like,

you know what the biggest culprits are in terms of the

agriculture. I think I don't have official

data behind that, but we, and so it's changing.

And from my perspective, and our perspective is Veritas, we work

with bases, we do auditing of like storage of pesticides, so

large agrochemical stores for their fields and things.

But on the side of that, many of them sold redenticides.

So as part of the audit, we do this little side piece which is

about redenticides and are you doing it under crew and XYZ this

year? So many of them are like, don't

bother, we don't need an audit. We're not doing them anymore

with the new regulations, it's not worth it.

We don't get that many really so already the avenues in which the

the agrochemical farmer down the road mate got it from his local

store, they aren't going to exist anymore because it's not

financially viable for the the wholesalers.

So this change, which is a bit of a pain in the butt, they.

Might be ringing us instead, but.

In theory, they're going to get to January and you're going to

hear lots of, and I've got, I've got loads of, we've got loads of

agrochemicals kind of contacting us saying like we need to get

trained, we need to get trained. I'm like, or we have to wait

till after harvest season. You're like, well, it goes in

2026, you need to wait and do your training and then it's got

to go and you've got to get your certificates.

And there's going to be delay because there's going to be so

many people. So either they're not bothering

or they're getting trained and most of them are just not

bothering. So therefore, it should at least

for the first part of 2026 to the full of year, unless you'd

be going to the professionals. So if anything, and though it

may mean you've got to retake your exam or you've got to sign

up for CPD, which you could get most of your points from a

crossword book, which is easy. It's going to be a good thing

for our industry. And I can see it happening.

So you can the best professional can, can be confident and

comfortable knowing from what I've seen anyway that it's the

Agra is just aren't offering anymore that that's saying that

the pesticide certification. If we think about how much we've

had to do and what our constraints are with the

rodenticides, imagine the amount of red tape we'd have to go

through with the number of insecticide actives and having

them vetted and having the certification and the right

training for the right ones. We'd end up going down the route

of like Agri chemicals. So having PA1PA6, we'd have to

have all these for every single kind of equipment we use to

it's. Are complicated.

Yeah, it's a hard 1. So though it's horrible when you

see any Tom, Dick and Harry are buying it off of the Internet

and buying it and doing it themselves, actually, they're

going to do a crappy job because they don't have the training

behind them anyway. So I'd I'd say protect and keep

it as it is. Just wait.

It's always up. Be careful what you wish for as

well, Lewis. Yeah, absolutely.

So did you have this funny story about you getting locked out

some toilets or something? You told me.

Oh this is my This is my token story and I love it.

It happened at a BPCA forum so I was at the in its infancy with

the the two bosses. I think it was my third or

fourth forum. It was in a room, it was all

together and there was some bathrooms within the same room,

but it highlighted, it really highlights the story, the gender

change or the gender gap in the industry, which is now a lot

better. 10 years ago at least, it was me going into the ladies

bathroom, which is literally straight off of a room.

The door and the people were right there.

I get locked in. Locked in.

OK, I get locked into a bathroom cubicle, but because there are

no other females in this entire forum except for our beautiful

Lauren from the events team. But she's far too busy dealing

with the actual event that's running and making sure all the

the talkers are having their So I'm in there for at least two

hours. You.

Didn't have a mobile there. No.

Because. I didn't I didn't take my mobile

in because the desk I was in a forum.

I had nothing. I couldn't I was engaging so

nothing with me so I couldn't contact.

I'm smashing on this door, whacking it with shoes.

No, nobody listens or hears. Nobody's coming in to see

because no one in the events female.

And I'd come in my lovely formal salesperson type because it's

quite early on in Pacific. So I'm in in tights and skirt

and heels and I'm like, and this cubicle, there wasn't an

underneath and there was a way at the top.

So I got right. OK, it's been 2 hours.

No one's coming. I need to get out.

Why are the bosses, by the way, Didn't notice that I disappeared

for a long period of time. Thanks, guys.

So yeah, I'm there. I throw my shoes over the top, I

throw my tights over the top and I start climbing like a little

monkey have my hands hanging at the end of this door trying to

work out. I didn't have the very good

upper body strength of that type of mind.

I don't know how I'm trying to get up And at that point Miss

Lauren day with I want to say it was, I want to say Kevin

Higgins. It was what it was someone well

known in the industry for their fantastic, you know, their

information and stuff comes in and with my claws over the edge,

shoes tights on the on the other side.

And I'm just hanging there going.

Laura, is that you? Let me out.

I've been here for hours. But it's it's just that little

story of me being embarrassingly caught in a situation which was

just. But yeah, if there have been

more males, more females in the industry, I might have been able

to get out sooner. Oh yeah, you're not wrong.

You can't. If you.

Yeah, I could say why that would happen.

Yeah, that's not. AI say that nowadays when I'm at

these events and I am at them fairly regularly, it is very

much a different. It's it's scenario now.

Before you never used to queue for the ladies bathroom at these

events, but now you do have to queue because that gender is is

slowly changing. It is and it never will be a

complete never changed fully. But there is some evidence of it

kind of getting a bit more both ways.

Getting better and there's and obviously you're seeing it you,

you've got to far more events than me.

You do. I've only been to one.

Well I'm going to one in September to kill German and

that's the only. And then I've got Pestech

because I'm obviously helping with Pestech because I'm on the

committee. Well, that's it.

You're, you're, you're part of the, the MPTA now.

So you've got to kind of represent at some point, I

suspect. Oh, but it's I, I, I'm, I'm

helping organise the, the pestech and I tell you what you

think it's all easy. It's not you budget this budget

that get agreed everything agreed.

It's it's fun, though. I'm liking it.

I'm going to I'm going to the the meal the night before.

I did not know there was a meal night for and I'm going on to a

meal the night of PCN or news or something going to that.

Never, never done anything like that.

Ever. This is the thing, if you don't

go to these events and you don't read like the news articles and

the magazines and you don't actually keep up with that sort

of part of our industry, then you don't know what goes on and

it's difficult in getting the communication out.

So I'm on the the outreach and communications committee for the

BPCA. One of our drives is to try and

get communication out to the press controllers who just

aren't, they don't read the emails, for example, they're not

sort of people that sit there looking at the work emails,

which is, you know, it's great. But these podcasts are a

fantastic kind of step to getting learning, communication

and everyone in the industry kind of all together as a

community. And it's it's great.

I think it's a, it's a great thing.

And I want more people to be able to click it on Spotify,

have it in their car whilst they go from job to job.

It's it's great. It's a good good.

Good, I was thinking. What else we could do?

I don't know. I mean, this is a video podcast,

but for the the vast majority of people probably listen on Apple.

I don't watch it, but the the biggest platform for for the

podcast or as in what you define as a podcast platform was Apple.

However, Spotify absolutely crushes it.

Now it it does. I don't know whether it's people

that are watching the videos. I don't know because you can

watch videos on Spotify podcasts you can yeah, you can watch.

I know. I don't know if I don't know,

but Spotify for for the video, for downloads, basically what is

actual podcast is or used to be that does the best it does so so

yeah. So it I don't know what the next

thing could be. I don't.

I don't actually know. I don't know, I simply I love an

audio book and I do a fair amount of travelling so but it

depends you your your sort of person who ends up travelling in

the last long distances, but I, I.

Do have audio books too. My wife's like there is.

I'll tell you one thing, there is not any real audio books out

there for pest control. And if they are, they're very

they're not by people within the industry.

They're like and they're eating it.

I tried to put stuff in as nothing.

My wife's nearly invested in Audible.

I mean the amount of book she owns with Audible is unreal.

I love Audible. Yeah, I, I audio books keep me

going on the road. And yeah, if I had something

that was just even if it was just someone talking at me

instead. Of reading something recently, a

book on entomology. I've had a book on that and

that's that's I'm doing a diploma in that I start doing it

open as a diploma in entomology. There's no time limit on it

though. If I've probably said it wrong,

but it's just try and get make me better at books identifying

books as well. It is, but that's 150 CPD if I

ever get it done. Beg, of course, that is.

Honestly, entomology is fantastically fascinating.

You'll never see me and me and Paul, even Sam, one of our FBS,

we will go around and in every single bag handbag I have, there

are little pots so I can get samples at any time.

Microscope go. I just it's.

Fascinating. The biggest thing that

fascinated me was the fact that I did not know.

I know it's a bit morbid, but on murder scene crimes they look

for bugs and all sorts. Can tell them when the person

died or killed or whatever that's mental that really is.

You've got loads of places that they will, particularly those

that are in, oh, what's the phrase?

You know, when you convert an old pet or an old animal?

Taxidermy, that's the one. It's a taxidermy.

Or there are collections of people who do skulls and like

bone based anatomy for teaching. Then we use thermostat beetle, a

pest beetle to devour the flesh so that they can have a nice

pristine bone to then teach to the students.

So it's it and that's that's pest control.

That is a pest control species out there being used and farmed

specifically for a job. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't

it? So talk about pest minds and

what and what pest minds is because you're, you're creating

quite a stir. People are people are liking it.

They are your, your new project. They are.

Good, good. So what Pest Minds was a concept

that I came up with and it was sitting there mulling in my

brain for a few months and I was like, you know what?

Let's, let's, let's actually do something here.

Let's see what, see what happens and let's see if it makes a

difference because in my mind, making a difference is, it's

fantastic. So I've done a few talks on

mental health in the pest control industry and the, at

least there was 1 specifically that always rings true in my

mind. But there's a few where people

come at the end, they will talk to me about that.

You know what? It's been great.

You've been talking about it in this way.

And I, you know what? But someone specifically came up

to me and said, I heard your talk last time, there was

something else. And because of you, I decided to

go and actually get help. And it has changed my life.

And for someone to say you've changed my life just with a few

words, just with a few stories. I mean, I'm, I'm, I wasn't going

into super scientific detail or I think it was just a form of

communication and kind of questioning the stigma behind

mental health and how we perceive it and our

perspectives. But to have someone say you've

changed your life, that's, that's, that's fantastic.

I mean. What you want exactly?

Did you? Did you, did you cry at that?

Did you motion them over that or not?

Not in front of them, but I did have a little bit in the car.

I, I on the way back, it does and it's still, I still touches

me. And it's the fact that we don't

communicate mental health, though generally, not

necessarily the president, but overall and the stigma and kind

of the presumptions behind mental health, they

automatically make us close up. And we are afraid of being able

to communicate because of those perceptions.

So looking weak or being vulnerable or not seeing, you

know, might be not be a reliable person or they might infect

their work because someone's like, you know what probably

wouldn't because of. So all this sort of worry and

angst that goes behind it stops us from talking about it.

So I'm like, OK, what can we do to make things better?

And one of the talks we had people communicating saying, you

know what? I won't say anything about

mental health. I mean, I have now because I got

to a certain point because I'm worried about losing my gun

licence if someone finds. That's came up a lot.

That's about the guns. So there was, I was too worried

about it. So I just, I just buried

everything in my mind. I didn't, I didn't want to talk

about it. I don't, I, you know what I

didn't. But actually it came to a

boiling point. And then actually when I went

and sought help and I spoke to my local, you know, the PC

department and things like nothing happened.

It was all fun because I want to see help at the right time.

And I and I had a right plan and things were and XYZ because I

can't speak for everyone's constituencies and everyone's,

you know, police departments are different and the licencing

rules and the opinions of certain police officers may have

an impact, but that's one of the constraints.

And then others were, I don't want to talk about it because I

don't want my boss to find out. I don't want him to find out.

I don't want to, you know, OK, so I thought, you know what?

There's no communication. How can we make this

communication easier? How can we break these barriers

down? So I created Pest Minds.

It is a communication platform, effective.

It's a website where people will submit their mental health

stories and I will then publish them on the website.

I've done a collection of media training and and mental health

training with mind to kind of make sure the stories are both

anonymous, make sure there's no inference in service provision

in certain areas. There's no inference to the

person, their employer. There's no, it's all kind of I

tweak to a level where it's made it acceptable for publishing on

to general Internet. So there are certain things that

you have to kind of say with certain words and phrases, but

it generally is their story. So it's their story of what,

whether that it's a big story or it could just be a small

thought, but because that story is coming out, someone might

read that. And if that person reads that

and goes, you know what? I'm, I'm now confident that I'm

going to do something about me. I've noticed something

naturally. You know what, I can relate to

this. Maybe I should go and see help

or this is a really good thought pattern.

Like one of them is someone who does, he's a sole trader, he's

got his own business and he's, you know what?

I separated my work phone and my home phone.

I literally made two mobiles. One goes off over the weekend.

I don't touch it, it's off. And just by doing that, my

stress levels and my general mental welfare has increased

fantastically just because I turned it off.

It's simple little things. Some of them are really big

stories. So some of them are someone's

gone through a very, very big journey from from a very basic

thing, or someone's noticed something in somebody else, or

there are certain triggers. Some of them are very small, but

it's amazing what one person's story read can do to you.

So that's the whole purpose behind it.

So if someone wanted to give you a story, but they weren't Bob,

they say they wanted to give you a story, but they weren't saying

they wanted to say who they were.

Would you, would you put their name out there like against your

policy? Say someone wasn't saying they

said he wanted to put their name on it.

Can they? No.

So then there's story submission that is literally is a put your

name, your e-mail and give me your story.

The name of the e-mail can be a complete alias.

You don't have to put anything real.

It could be a fake e-mail and a fake Mrs Niggins name.

It doesn't matter. The only reason I have those two

parts in there is I, I will say here's the slightly tweaked

version to make it safe for, you know, it's a mental Health

Communication site, so we have to be careful.

I have to put triggers, warnings and things.

Here's the version of it before it goes live later today.

That's literally all that emails for and that all that name is

for. So anything that gets put in

there that has any form of identity will be taken out.

And there are TS and CS on this website explaining exactly

what's done. So obviously standard

communication protocols, no racism, no hate speech and all

that jazz. But there's also a no talking

about the company you work for. You can, you can put it in your

submission if you don't want to think about having to figure it

all out and what you can tell me your full life story.

But I will make it so that it is completely anonymous so that

anyone who does read it doesn't know who it comes from and where

it's. It's so generic in that that's.

Fine, you mentioned mentioned mines there.

I did. I did AI did a charity walk for

them. I raised 300 and 54949455 miles.

Yeah, it was this year 55 miles over 55 miles over a month.

I did for them. I raised quite a bit for them.

Yeah, mine's a fantastic charity.

So I mean the NHS is brilliant in what it does, but mine

supports the NHS very well and it provides that communication

and the information that you might not get immediately from

other services in your area or they might just kind of direct

you and give you a bit more hard hitting information.

So some of the stuff that you really just want to know as well

as well as other people's stories and, and things.

So it's just, and that's kind of where I got partial inspiration

from because they have a lot of things about people's stories.

But it's like we need to have this pest industry relatable

because it, it just won't support the pest management.

We are, we are a group of people, a community that are

very quirky. No one knows our industry unless

you're in it. So being able to communicate

stories from each other, it makes a huge difference, it

really does. And I all I want to do with this

is just help by just communication.

That's all it is. Oh, it's definitely true.

I mean, although I wouldn't say I suffered with it, but like

with I broke my basically broke my knee twice, left knee twice

over since 2020, rehabbed and then, you know, I lost loads of

weight. Did all well and I just couldn't

be arsed in the edge and then I like all back on.

Then in April 2024 I re broke the knee, the kneecap and then

got walking again. And ever since April 2024 to the

day I've lost 8 stone and I've kept it off.

And I tell you what, it helps you mentor.

You feel a lot better about yourself.

Plus one people, one people don't realise it's because in

pest control you need to be mobile.

It helps do your job far better. And I've noticed when I go to

the gym, it's right. I don't, I wouldn't say I've

suffered with it. I've, I've have, I've

experienced it where you know in your head that you need to do

something, but you don't actually want to do it.

And you're like a shame because there was sadly there's no

photos to meet my highest because I didn't like both being

photographed. How you look?

Do you? But then I found some, but not

the ones that are peaked. But we're talking, I was nearly

30 stone we're talking. So I've done quite well in that

period to lose a lot. I have so, but it does it does.

I'm going to be writing an article soon about this about

weight loss and the gym. You don't have to go gym.

Anyone can do whatever they want and it helps mobility within

pest management because a lot of people don't think about being

healthy within pest management, do they?

It's not something they think about, but you've got to think

about. Like I, I do a lot of mould

control. I've got to get up on my knees,

but I've got, I've got knit, I've got a knee finger sit on.

But to get up and down. When I broke my knee I couldn't

get up and down off the floor. Now it's like no problem.

But yeah, it's all connected. I reckon it's.

Oh, absolutely, yeah. So there's all sorts of

different parts of you and your personality and when something

jarringly changes that and has that impact and whether that's

not being able to be at work or not being able to do a certain

thing or generally. Yeah, your health has

deteriorated and you just your mental well-being alongside the

physical aspects of things make it, it's a huge, huge I.

Think it's clapped in my brain though in when I've done it in

April 2024. Where I don't know if it's what

Sean said on the podcast, but I had not long become 40 and in

the December and obviously they broke my knee for the second

time and I thought, kids, I've got kids.

My missus. I can't do this again.

I can't be off. And like, that's a lot.

That's part of it. But like my kids like can do

this on my on my belly and show me where I was.

It's frightening as to where I was, where I was at, but yeah,

they're all it's a it's a big thing and they're all proud of

me for it. They are.

It's it's a good thing, but much got much more energy.

Now don't get me wrong, I've I've still got a long way to go,

but I'm happy where I am now. I'm carrying on going, but it's

I think it I think it helps in general.

I. Don't.

And that's that's a very key point, being happy in yourself.

It's easy just to kind of roll on day on day and go, Oh yeah,

you know, I'm not. But to be able to look at

yourself and go, I'm happy in me wherever you're at.

And and to be proud of your own self is is huge.

It really is, because it's easy to be proud of other people.

It really is. But being proud in yourself is

very difficult and quite can be quite uncomfortable feeling.

I am, but it's taken a while because although a lot of I've

shared my story, you see about how much I've lost on different

platforms, even next door, all within the company socials and a

lot of people have called me inspiring.

And when you hear that like you've done, you've done really

well. Keep it up.

It's I struggle when people actually praise me face to face

or on a pod on a podcast or something.

I, I don't know what to do because I've had some people

call me, some customers say it's really in spite.

I've seen what you've done. You've done really well.

I don't know. You should be like, yeah, I am,

yeah. But I'm like, have I have I

really lost that much? Because in your head you

sometimes don't think, oh, I've lost that much.

But it's when someone's not seen you for ages, It's, it's a weird

thing in your head is I know I've lost and done well.

Maybe it's imposter syndrome. I don't know, some crap like

that. I don't know, but it's, it's

always weird when people tell you.

It's nice when people tell you because you know you do, you

know you're doing a good job. But I have inspired others to

try and get on the weight loss journey.

I've never told people to. It's people seeing the story,

that's all. And that and that there's two

parts of what you're saying is, and one of my one of the mental

health talks I've done, one of the points is that's called be a

nice cream coat as well. It's got a little gear when it

goes around and it's just the nice things that you see in your

head. Actually say them.

Don't just think it. It doesn't have to be a friend.

You can be a stranger, but by doing so, you actually make a

huge impact in someone's life. So someone telling you how well

you've done and that you're inspiring immediately makes you

feel fantastic as well as the person.

And but if that hadn't been said, well, you're depriving.

What? Why?

Why hold back? What I mean, there's a part of

when you're a kid, one of the stories I say is I had this kid.

I do a gardening club for the children at school.

Just I don't know how I've ended up doing it, but I'm doing it.

But one of the kids came to me and says, if it weren't for you,

Miss I, I hate school, but I love it now.

I love coming. Back.

And as a kid, they're so open and honest and willing to say

what they feel and what they think.

But as adults, we somehow get into this weird, oh, what do

people think? If I say that?

What do people? But complimenting someone very

briefly, even if it is just a stranger you just walk past and

go, I like shoes, mate. They're great.

Makes a huge impact on someone's day.

So it's important to and it's great that you're getting that

response and acknowledging it. And though it does make you feel

a little uncomfortable, it does make you feel great, right?

A little bit. Yeah, it does.

I mean, I, I'm one of these people in the gym now.

If I see someone that's been going for quite a few weeks and

they're really trying, I do go up to them and say you're doing

really well. I've seen you and a lot of them

say thanks and start smiling. You know they do.

Yeah, it's, it's and you just saying you communicate in your

story is having an impact on someone else.

And that's the whole point of Pest Minds, to communicate the

stories. And when it comes to mental

health, it's like you don't realise how amazingly important

your impact, your story can have.

You could, I mean, we talk about and you hear it publicly in the

news and a lot of obviously about suicide rates and mental

health declines and everything else.

It's all can be quite hard hitting and just one person's

little story, you could effectively save a life.

So why don't you just communicate it?

And that's kind of, I'm trying to encourage people.

Obviously some people aren't in the right place and it doesn't

feel right and they don't want to.

That's absolutely fine. But if you think potentially,

you know what, it doesn't have to be a huge thing either.

It could be something very minor.

So you, I mean, you're telling me now that your mental health

hasn't, you know, it's not really a mental health thing.

Well, actually. It probably was.

Probably was. OK, if you got to a point where

you were injured and then you put on weight and you felt bad

in yourself, you wouldn't take pictures of yourself because you

felt awful in. In Oh, you take selfies all the

time. Now I'm a right composer.

Complete. And that is an impact on your

mental well-being. So that in its own right is a

story. Obviously I don't expect you now

to to write a publishing because obviously it won't be anonymous,

but that's what I'm trying to communicate to people and that

there are some interesting stories that have come through.

I mean, one of them is about the the distress that someone has

felt from dispatching rodents and animals.

Oh, OK. And you won't hear anyone in our

industry. I mean, we don't like and some

people are really happily bragging about how many rats

there. Are made the first time I had to

shoot a squirrel. I wasn't the biggest fan of it.

No, but it had to. No, it's the first time.

It's a fantastic story that someone's going to, you know

what, even if it made them feel a little bit lighter by saying,

you know what, I, I, I couldn't tell this to anyone openly in my

industry because I didn't know what people would think about

me, but they said it. And actually dispatching

animals. Some people it doesn't matter,

it's part of the job and it just goes on.

But for some it does actually have an impact.

These are live and it might have relationships with their

religion or culture. So these stories make a huge

impact and it doesn't matter how big or how small, you don't know

what's relevant to another person.

So by communicating never, never hold back and kind of shy away

if you think you are ready and willing to to kind of

communicate. Oh, oh, it's good that is.

I didn't realise all that was connected to mental health at

all, what I did, but it sounds like it was.

It was, it's. Well, mental health is is the

same as exercise in your muscles and your and your you know how

well your body is doing. It's easy for us to break a leg

and openly talk about it and walk around with a cast in work

and you don't feel bad about it. But if mentally you are

struggling, there are neurochemical there are reasons,

scientific reasons. Our brain is an amazing piece of

engineering and if something breaks a little bit there

because of, and that may be our own behaviours and actions.

That is still an illness that is still say you've pulled a

muscle. It's it is something and you're

having to heal and, and, and kind of get over and hiding it

away and, and not being willing to kind of see it as a as

something to work on. It's a shame, but.

It doesn't like, like I have shared my story and in general

people are people are nice, but I have the odd bug because I put

a lot of my stuff on tech talk as well.

But I don't have insecurity. So if someone says nasty things

and they have it actually doesn't bother me.

It's their problem. They're insecure about something

else. I've learned that, but I don't.

I don't. I've got a thick skin now in

social media and if someone wants to say something they

can't. It doesn't now.

It doesn't really bother me. I usually get oh fuck lips.

Well done mate. I'd I really heard that.

I've heard that before. Very original.

Good on you. Sometimes you do question like

OK. You've never heard that.

Ever. I heard that when I was when I

was a kid, I. Remember being bullied as a kid

and what it did, it got to a point where I was just like,

actually you're saying the same things over and over again.

And So what? It's amazing.

You kind of get to a point where you pity the other person if

like if that's what you want to communicate and that's how you

want it all. It's funny because in the real

world they would never walk up to me.

I'm quite a big guy, I'm 6 foot 3.

There's a high chance they wouldn't even say anything to

me. But in this world of social

media, people feel that there's no person behind the other side

of the keyboard and they can say what they like, but that's the

that's the world we live in now. But I do put myself out, and

admittedly I do, but I've learnt to have a thick skin I have and

that's. Why Pest Binds is anonymous and

it only goes and the submissions only go through to me and I'm

not affiliated with any. It's not with Veritas at all.

So ignore that. Ignore that logo in the corner.

It is me and me alone to work through and I do it all in my

own time. It's all out of ours.

So it's, it's, you know, someone might publish a few stories have

come through and it'll take a couple of weeks for me to get

round to really spending proper time on them.

But to give people a little bit of confidence knowing there's no

sort of, there's no alter background, someone's going to

find something out and it might lead to me being found out in

some other company. There's none of that.

It is just to communicate anonymously.

And there are as well, obviously links on the website of if you

are in a worry and you are struggling or you want to get

some new communication, then there are links to to sites that

are fantastic. I mean, one for example, is

called Shout. It's a text system and you're

messaging and you get instantly put through to somebody by the

text message and you're you're talking to them for a period of

time and you're not having to wait for someone to pick up a

phone. And you, as you say, sometimes

messaging and not having that human sort of manipulative sort

of interaction, you can't help but try and make certain ways

you talk. It's just human nature.

You want to come across as a good person or something.

You want to come bring your personality across.

Well, and other things you kind of don't want to say or

prejudices. Yeah, anyway, there's none of

that. And so message existence.

Kind of, yeah. It is a lonely industry, pest

control, though I do, I do work my dad's dad still, which is

great. I speak to a lot of pest

controllers daily on we message on either WhatsApp or or, or met

or Facebook Messenger. And these are guys, honestly,

they're like solo operators and we message each other all day.

And I find they've told me that really helped.

That does because there's a talk it's just about anything, you

know, not not it's not specifically always pest

control, but that helps because it's very lonely and it's

because of the ones that a lot, a lot of people.

And you say to your clients and you kind of put on a

professional face and like, right, this is me.

But actually it's not you, it's you being a professional and to

a certain level. And you can't really you're

trying. Some people are great at

becoming relating with with their customers and having those

conversations. But to others, it just doesn't

come naturally. So to have this, a community or

support network for them that understand the job, understand

it and, and you can say something and have a bit of a

joke, a bit of banter, but it doesn't actually have to be

anything professional. This community is, is, is

important. So communication is, is huge and

finding a support network is really good.

And I I've had a lot of pest companies, solo ones or those

that are small groups anyway, micro businesses who say that

initially they're very afraid to talk to their local besties

because they're worried about competition.

And, and you know, but actually when they do have these

conversations, nobody's really fighting, particularly if they

are these small sole traders and micro businesses, they're all

supporting each other and actually tend to help each other

out when it because you know what, I'm out on holiday.

Can you cover these clients? Yeah, great.

I'll do the same for you. And I think that supportive

network and it is just kind of taking that step to have that

communication thing. I, I get on with the vast

majority of the local ones. I in my area, not going to say

all of them, but the vast majority I do.

It's always back. Well, yeah.

What's it called? My friend, he doesn't mind

mentioning his name. Sam Tricky went to one of your

conversations at MPTA in Southwest.

He thought you'd done a very good, very good talk.

He did well. It was very informative and

helpful. He says he seems a nice talk.

He did, as I mentioned, had your own.

Oh, make sure you tell her that. Enjoy your talk there.

You go and this is it. It's just communicating and it

makes, it's amazing what impact it has on people.

It really does. So talk about anything.

Exactly, exactly. So what would you say to

somebody if they didn't want to say re reach out for

professional help as such, but needed help in a way?

Would you say talk to friends or something like that if they

weren't ready for the next step? OK, so my, again, this is

another one of my parts in my talks where, OK, a lot of people

will go. I, I feel like a burden.

I don't want to lay this on to somebody else.

I feel like I'm having to deal with all these problems.

I don't want to then put someone else under this pressure and

stress or, or whatever it is. So I say flip, flip it round.

If your mate came to you and said, do you mind just having a

chat with me? You think actually, yeah, you

know what? Of course.

And you feel great for helping that friend.

So if flip it back around again, if you're not, you're contacting

the people that are around you, whether they be very minor

friends or very close friends, you're denying them an

opportunity to feel good about helping you.

So it's kind of like a flip it round and actually you're not a

burden on someone. And nobody who's ever come to me

with a problem and said at no point have I gone, oh crap, I've

got to deal with them. And there are times when you're

not. I'm really busy.

I am here for you. Can you just give me an hour?

I'll, I'll call you back and that's fine.

You're allowed to have your own life and be busy and and so

forth. But at no point have I gone.

You know what? I it's too much stress.

I can't deal with you. Even when I've gone through

struggles and I've been at a place, I'm like, look, I'm not

in a place right now. But but going and talking to

anybody, honestly, anyone that even if it is your work, so

you're your colleagues, your bosses, don't hold back in

worrying about what other people think of you because in most

cases, nearly all cases, they want to help.

We are humans. We, we want to help others.

And if you don't want to talk to friends, there are loads of

different places you can go. So I've said like the shout,

there are links on the Pest Minds site of lots of different

kind of avenues that you can take to seek help.

And it doesn't necessarily mean making an appointment with the

GP, which is a fantastic way, but there are other ways you can

have. A mess?

No problem mess. The problem mess for that is the

most GPS now make you ring them up.

They make someone ring you back, tell.

And then you've got to tell the receptionist what is wrong with

you. And a lot of people won't want

to. OK, I'll, I'll pass this back at

you. Most GPS, the majority now have

something called an E consult where you can input directly off

the website. I think it's only for like half

of the day, but you can submit online via the NHS and you don't

speak to a certain person and they will only ring you back and

they'll, they'll send you. You can say I only want text

messages and they say you've made an appointment or we need

to talk to you. Please call us things like that

so you don't have to. Have that.

But saying that to ring someone up at AG PS office, do you

really? I know it's not nice to have to

communicate and take that step and it feels so uncomfortable to

open up to perhaps a stranger or someone who maybe in the past

you're like receptionist God, they just don't want to hear

from me. As soon as anyone mentions

mental health, the NHS, the reception teams, anyone will

immediately, right? I know that I wanted to talk to

and I need to give you at least 1/2 an hour appointment.

So it's kind of like that. But as I say, yeah, GPS are one

way and they're econ sorts, but that doesn't have to be the

route you necessarily take to seek help.

So there are loads of different charities and communication

streams. Some of them are based on the

industries or your age. There are loads of ways to see

help and it's just and taking that step and finding the

information it's. I just thought, I just thought

I'd bring them things up because people be listening, thinking of

thinking their kind of roots. And because I, well, I remember

when I was ringing doctors, I weren't ringing for mental

health at all. I was ringing because I was ill.

But on the phone at that time, it actually said if your your

case is mental health related, they actually gave you a

different number to ring. They did.

So it's whether somebody was going to ring that number,

weren't they? So what a peak a while ago now.

But that might put someone off. But you don't know, do you?

That's the thing you don't know. So there's you don't know what

you don't know. And I mean, that number might

have been a number, which meant that you had someone who was

actually going to listen to you with sincerity instead of

worrying about receptionist who's going got Mrs whatever

says that her foot corns or bunions or whatever need looking

at today. And you know, the stress of

everything else. So you you can't you can't

predict what's going to happen. And to be fair to the NHS, there

are certain areas where some people have had bad experiences.

But like with any experience, you don't tend to talk about the

positive ones to people very often.

But if you have a bad one, you're willing to tell lots of

people. Same.

Like, you know, you go shopping and you've had a really crap

service, mate. Don't use them because they were

awful for me. And he tells it.

But you wouldn't turn around and say, you know what?

I went into that shop and I, I, I purchased what I needed and I

came out of it. You don't talk about that.

So it's very and it's the same with social media as well.

Negative stories tend to reversal rate very quickly.

I mean, we know in the best industry mega Wasps and this

negative here. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,

whoa, whoa. It in because actually the

science behind it is and you know, but you're it's, it's,

it's a bizarre, I don't know. Are we as humans, morbidly

curious as to the negative and the bad?

Seems to be now everything's geared towards negative.

That's why. I mean, I'm no expert in this,

but I believe that if you want to have good mental health, do

not watch the news because that will destroy it.

That's why it's depressing. That's why I say I only hear it

every so often when it comes on in the van, the radio is on.

But in general, I don't turn TV news on because I do.

It's factually proven that it will make you depressed.

It will. They don't report nice stuff

today, nice stories very often today.

Not often, no. And I think your local radio

stations are your best way because they.

Do they they do actually local? Community and and and and stuff.

But yeah, you're right. I don't go to the news.

I see my husband looking on it on his phone and I just think I,

you know what? Mentally.

Especially the minute, especially the minute of all the

crap going on in the world. Do not look at it.

Do not look at it at home. That's the best thing you can

do. Live in your moment and enjoy

what's going on around you in a positive light and notice the

things, they may be minor small things.

You're allowed to enjoy the small things in life, really

small ones. Hence me, I'm sitting here with

a glass of wine with a little Star Trek logo on it right now.

And I'm sitting there going on, it's kind of, I don't know,

little things that I'm living in.

I don't take pictures anymore. I've, I've got a bad habit of

that actually, but I feel like I'm mentally taking pictures in

my mind. I'm living in what moment I'm in

SO. Oh yeah, it's like all that

situation where in like, say, I don't know, say you're I've got

to stop. It's auto focus on the camera.

Stop me and the Charles. They're still.

There right where say you see these images where say a load of

people when when Prince Charles, not Charles Prince, his son

Prince William got married and you've got all these people with

their phones out watching through videoing.

But again, you've got the elderly lady, but watching

through her own eyes rather than it's better through her own eyes

and not through staring through the camera because all that

stuff will be on the Internet for you to watch later.

It will. Absolutely.

It'll be on you later. And what is it?

What are you recording it for so you can tell someone else that

you've been somewhere? That's what they're doing it for

this. Is it?

When did you actually, what did you feel at that time other than

I'm at somewhere I need to tell us no, no, no, absorb, enjoy.

And I that's one thing I miss about this, the social dynamic

of going out for a drink with mates or going to a pub and

having conversations, not having your phone.

So you know when you're sitting there having a chat with someone

and. Going, oh, it's addictive and it

has the problem. Yeah, it becomes addictive,

doesn't it? Conversation about it, enjoy the

moment because yeah, you know someone's wrong somewhere but by

looking it up and I found out the information and it's done

all right OK And then you take it a step back and no one's

actually going out anymore because you just.

You don't need to. You can communicate in other

ways, but I mean. Yeah, well, I don't play on my

phone. I get far more done or learning.

I can learn something far more than when I'm on my phone.

Like tech talk. It can doom scroll.

You can. You can sleep better.

You can sleep better as well. You can.

Yeah, yeah, that's and that's one thing I'll tell you now from

one of my jobs in pre PES fix and pest industry, I was in

pharmacy and I did, I was like a pharmacy dispenser.

I did lots of healthcare training and stuff behind it.

And that's partially also where my mental health kind of stuff

coming from. But one of the things is that

your phone has a blue light philtre on it in the settings.

If you don't have that on the blue light that comes from your

phone in the dawn of day, the first light that comes through

from dawn that has a higher level of blue light that comes

through, which reduces the amount of melatonin that you

produce in your eyes. And because from your from the

triggers in your eyes, sorry, not from your eyes.

So that and the melatonin is what is kind of like an inducer

of sleep. So if you have blue light, all

the light coming from your phone when you're doing scrolling at

bedtime, which you know some people do, some people need to

wind up, but you're getting the triggers chemically that will

tell your body it's still daytime.

I do not need to be asleep and nearly every phone in the volume

settings there is a sometimes. What is it called I comfort

shield? Yeah, there you go.

I comfort Shield. It's on.

Yeah, it's on. So.

Now you may find if at night time you are doom scrolling or

looking for your phone the the chemical reaction from the blue

light that's now not there will help mean you go to sleep

better. Well, it's been switched on, I

hope. That's one, that's that's there

we go in healthcare. There we go.

But yeah, I'm sure someone's learned something.

They're probably gone right to the phones now.

Oh, it's not on. Turn it on.

Yeah, and if it helps you sleep, they're fantastic.

It's. But no, thanks Anna, for coming

on. I think it's, it's been a good

conversation in general. It has.

You've got anyone you'd you'd want to see on the podcast in

feature Paul's been on already. Oh, Oh no, Paul's everywhere.

We don't know. Fantastic.

He's a great tool and and honestly, his wealth of

knowledge is is and his stories are fantastic.

He don't want it. 2025 years, 30 years in the industry.

Brilliant. For me, it's not necessarily

about the person specifically. For me, it's the engagement and

the communication and the charisma.

So being able to listen because I listen to to podcasts if I can

in the car. So anything that is a great

conversation isn't Death by PowerPoint, anything's fantastic

in that respect. So anyone that's within our

industry and it doesn't necessarily have to be pest

professionals or it doesn't have to be, there are lots of kind of

side shoots to our industry that don't tend to communicate.

Put someone on that has a chat with you.

I'd love to listen to it in the car.

Well, I've got guests that we've booked up to just just before

and yeah, just before Pestech. That's why I'm booked up to.

I am. There's no podcast.

There's no, there's no podcast that week, right?

Well, go to the pest control dinner and then you can happily

sit there and record someone on the event and then you sign up a

load of people. You'll see it's yeah, it's a

really nice, nice day. I think the dinner as well is a

really nice sort of everyone. Let's not let's down their

guard, but kind of just it's a community.

Let's all have dinner and have a have a drink and it'd be nice to

each other. I don't.

Know that's good then yeah, might do that.

I'll see you. There is some people I've been

trying to get on, but I probably might see them there.

But I find it hard because chemical companies are not as

open to having their staff on. I'm found getting barriers like

that. Yeah.

And you might have loads of those, those particular people

who want to and they'd love to communicate, but they have

strict protocols and these Agri chemical companies, they're

huge. Some of these people want to get

on the geniuses and I'd love to get rich.

I'd love to get rich on the Minvoo, but I've so far no.

Basically, I don't get anyone from the a lot.

It's hard to get anyone from a big company on.

I understand why, because they want to.

They want to make sure that everything's fine.

I've even offered to record it rather than go live.

And no, not yet. But you never know.

One day, you never know. Keep trying.

You never know. And even if it isn't, you know,

the big names from those companies, perhaps even some of

the smaller aspects or just like we'd like to have a chat about

what it's like to be somebody else and you're interested, you

know, perhaps a different reflection in that respects.

That's not. Yeah, I don't know.

It's a difficult one for them and I know, I know people in

that. Industry I I understand why,

though I don't understand why I don't like that I do, but it I'm

just looking for someone where because obviously I had I'm

homes on the other week and he he worked at Elsys.

He explained how product development works from start to

finish of like EFKS and I was just trying to find someone who

would from a company that would explain how a chemical start to

finish works. It's not going to be as simple

as that. It's not.

No, but who's to say you don't look at some of the small minor

areas that do very minor chemicals.

That's. True, the principle behind it is

generally. From what I know it's generally

the same, but the time scales are huge. 8 to 10 years before

something an active ingredient can get on the market.

People kept telling me all that they, what's it called?

The chemicals get removed quick, quickly.

It's just, no, it's just that we've had a load recently.

But in general, it doesn't happen very often, does it?

It's very. No, it doesn't happen often.

And actually they cycle so they may go from one business that

may not have them anymore. So then some other businesses

besides you know what, this is now financially viable and it's

just so happens that the pest. And they launch it as a new

product and they it's not it's the same active but a new

package. But if you think about the, the

sales of pest control products for the urban pest industry are

such a tiny drop in the ocean compared to the agro chemicals

in the vast area of it. So if you were looking for

something that I'd say you're looking look at like the buyer

size. So like getting chemicals onto

the market that are for bacterial based, you know, not

necessarily for urban pest control or pest control as such,

because that will give you an idea.

And I think they're a lot more open, particularly since COVID

and the whole structure and I'll.

Try that end then I will. If that works, I will.

But yeah, thanks for coming on. Stop autosocusing.

Stop moving me edge. There we go.

I think there, right. Yeah.

Thanks for coming on, Anna. Anna, it's been great.

You want to tell people where they can find you, but I have

linked your website in the description as well.

Yeah, I have. Press mine.co.uk and you can

find me on LinkedIn and DM and DM me on LinkedIn.

So if you need to talk to me personally, then yeah, all.

Right. And thanks for coming on, Anna.

And I'll end it there and I'll see everyone next Tuesday.

As always. I can't remember who I've got on

next week, so you have to wait. I'm not very prepared like that.

I can't look after the podcast. I do so right.

And thanks everyone. I'll speak to you soon.

Stay on for just a second.

Tonight's Episode