Falconry & Bird Control: Going Self-Employed in Pest Control | Michael Dall

0:01 Hello and welcome to pest perspectives episode 26 quite warm again, like last week, it is annoyingly warm, but it's doing it's doing good for the Wasps or seasons in full swing. For this week. We are live on Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube. Now if you if you're watching say hello proper like please follow the channel or subscribe especially on Facebook. I'd like to get 1000 followers. The dream on YouTube would be to get to 1000 subscribers but I can't see it ever happening but who knows. So this week I have got on Michael Dow from MD Falconry and Pest Solutions.

0:50 How are you? Hi, guys. How's it going? Yeah, I'm good. Thank you. Sean, how are you? Good to hear. OK, cheers. Yeah, it's been a long time in the in the making there. She was like, oh, has it come round that quick already? You were like when I sent you a message. So you're still good, still good for Tuesday. You're like, has it come round that quick already? It feels like yesterday you mentioned it, but yeah, it's just gone so quickly, so quickly. It's been so busy for everyone at the moment. I feel that, you know, time's just disappearing.

1:21 Oh. Yes, it's the offseason's causing a lot of it. I'll be honest. I'm still, although don't get me wrong, I mean it's not as rampant as it was, but I'm still doing a lot of what's next this week. Saturday I did about 10. I would say I'm not counting. I would say we're easily over 300 watts nests already. I would say, well, I've lost count, to be honest, but yeah, I've lost count. But about that ish, maybe more. I should count them really, but I don't should should should really count them but. Well, yeah, I mean, The thing is, this season, obviously, I was going to try and focus on bird work, flying the bird's prey and just mostly doing that.

2:10 But I'm so glad I got back into pest control with your rodents and your insects because wolf season has just been absolutely bonkers, absolutely crazy. I can't believe how many calls we're getting for wasp nest this. It's insane. Yeah, I know it's, they are everywhere because I've recently set up a lot of what by management, you know, where you put the they're very good. But I've set up three places in our Cricket Club and two pub. Yeah, two pubs so far for that. Because you've got oh, this must be a friend of yours.

2:51 Whatever they say, just don't read it out. Knock knock, it's a kind of joke but report bot 1-2 frame. Guess it's one of your friends probably. Yeah, but ignore. Them I've set up to two pubs and 1 Cricket Club because there was just everywhere and although Pete, you have to tell people it's tickets with Ross Bay it's just Scout Wasps. But it stops with Ross Bay and you get what's it called? That's it. They attract the scout Wasps and from the wasp nest they send the Wasps to certain areas and then when they don't return, they don't send Wasps that area.

3:39 So you end up with lower numbers. You can't guarantee a customer you'll get no, no Wasps, but you just say it will reduce it as much as you can. You can't in pest control. You can never guarantee you're saying you never see another wasp, can you? But they are highly effective. But one thing to know there was Bain sent out an e-mail saying that they've run out of stock basically. So we've we've yes, they can't get no more till next year. So we've bought a load and we've we've gone around buying a lot of the other suppliers that sell them just in case.

4:12 We've been selling a lot of them because they're the ones that only have that are specifically tested for Wasps only, will not catch flies, will not catch bees. Some of the other ones can't get canned, end up with all sorts of them. But these ones are specifically designed for this. Yeah, for, for that, but selling, selling a lot. And do they all? Do all suppliers sell it? Yeah, most of. Them yeah, OK, that's something I might look into because that might be good for like cafes and. I've looked, but when word gets out that well, Spain haven't gotten your left, they'll soon be bringing round trying to get hold of them because they are they work well, but you've got to understand probably you've got to talk to the customer as to have it work.

5:02 I've done a seminar on it with the guru. I've tried to get him on the podcast and so far I've got nothing, but he's like the guru was Carol. It's seminar was like from 9:00 in the morning and we got out there like 7 at night. This guy's a God damn genius. Honestly, I'll. Try that out. But it's what Autumn towers use. They they use what they use them as well. OK. Yeah, that makes sense. That's pretty cool, to be fair. It is, but yeah, it's been a good boss season so far. And what are you using as your main powder?

5:36 Like when you're treating the nest? What are you personally using? I'm tested all sorts really. I've been, I've been, I've been, I've been trying Falcon, I've been trying deadline, I'll try all different ones. But so far I haven't had any issues yet. Yet. I'm not going to say just yet so, but it's all about trying to make sure you've you've got the nests in the right position. But to be fair, a lot of our nests have been in easy positions, to be fair, But there hasn't been any really tricky ones yet.

6:12 Usually get tricky ones later in the summer. Later they get higher and higher and higher. Yeah, yeah. But a lot of them have been very low level recently. I'll be honest, most of them in very, very low level. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Easy. It has. So it certainly varies. It does. It's a funny year. That's definitely been interesting. I mean, I remember having the chat with you because I was talking about going back on Chequer trade. Yeah, Yeah. Which seems to be quite. It's quite controversial though, isn't it?

6:48 Chequer trade people. Some people love it, some people hate it and. Yeah. I mean it's whatever works for you. I mean, I mean, we never got nothing out of it, but you might get your name out there more. But we were we in the RRB, we were quite established already so. Yeah, yeah. I think for me it's getting my name out there as much as possible. I know, I know, I said I wasn't a fan of it, but for you it might work. It won't work for everyone. Well, every job has pretty much been a wasp nest. That's the problem.

7:20 What from check of trade? Yeah, literally. I've only been back on it for maybe 2-3 weeks and every job apart from maybe 2 have been wasp nest. Oh, OK, well. Gets a bit bored. Get them, get them to review you because yeah, yeah, because that check of trade, all you go on about get the customers to review you, get them to review you. My issue was at at the time we would have the only pest firm on there for 75 miles and they kept saying get reviews on there the algorithm, but I said we're the only pest control company and they wouldn't listen says I've got no I'll ask for a reconstruct since we haven't got one job for York for bum checker trade.

8:04 We should be coming up first time, but it's I'll be changing change now. Thanks stereo pest killer on LinkedIn for popping in. But yeah, now it's been a bit of a yeah, hectic season to say the least. I mean, it would even better if this season was last year, but. Yeah. I mean, people say you always have one good wash season every three years. Have you heard that? And we we had a terrible season last year. Yeah, we had an. Incredible season, the three-year, the three years before. OK. We were quite good seasons in general, but last year was awful.

8:47 We had about 160 the whole season. That was it. So, but yeah, you want it is it is true, but it's also area dependent as well. Yeah, of course and. Where you are in the country, I don't imagine you when if you lived in Scotland, you'd have a very good wasp season because it's it's I don't think they get as many Wasps up there. But I might be wrong. But it's true. It's all it's all life cycles. You're saying cycles. So it's true. Every every insect has its year. Yeah, even the ladybirds are everywhere this year.

9:25 Have you? Seen. Yeah, I've noticed a few, but I've never really met any customers who say, oh, you know, ladybirds are a problem. I've not. I've not had it yet. It's Harley. Quinn's not a problem. It's not a hard native book. It's the Harley Quinn's. I can actually bite you. Oh, really? Yeah. The Harley Quinn's. If you ever get them in a house, you'll see them in the corner of the of the room. They'll be bunched up into a like a book all bunched up together. They're the Harley Quinns. There's about 16 different names for them, but they're not native, but they can be.

9:57 They can be a pest. They can be. OK, well, I look forward to that, if that's ever, you know, a job that comes through. Well, it's simple. It is. But you, you, you may get it. What is this next impulse? Hello your friends. Yeah, just again, please ignore that person. That'd be great. They're a nightmare, mate. They're a nightmare. How did you get in? Well, they are here supporting you, aren't they? They are. In some way, yeah, sure. I bet you've lost our Yeah, just say that. Don't ignore me. Vex is saying it's done.

10:43 Right. We won't let them take over. We won't let them say go for that. So with pest control.

11:01 I can guarantee it. I've caught up again now, the signals. Are you there? Yeah. What's happened? Yeah, I'm back. Did they hijack anyway? Right. The signals back now I don't know what happened there. Yeah, I'm back. Sorry. Was you going to ask how I got into pest control? So basically, how did you get into pest control? Did you work for other firms in the past and what was your experiences and training like and whatnot? Is that how you did your training? Yeah, I mean, it's been a long journey, if I'm honest.

11:39 Pest control. I never knew anything about pest control growing up. I never even knew it was a job when I was 18. Really. OK, it's interesting. I wish in schools and stuff they talk about it more, but no, never knew it was a job. So yeah, basically AT18I joined the military. I did four years in the Household Cavery Mounted Regiment, so working with horses and I've always had a passion for animals and left there. Worked in Australia for a year again with horses and I came back and I looked at pest control.

12:24 But I'll be honest with you, when I saw the wage I was just a bit like this, like how am I going to survive? I was looking at jobs like £24,000 a year and this was back in 2016 and I thought that's quite low and through the military I got all my HGV licences. Yeah. On that, but I wasn't in pest control, I was just looking at it. But if I'm honest, the wage put me off. OK. And then I think it was 2020, I started falconry. So I started flying birds of prey and one of the guys on my hockey team asked me if I could fly the bird for his business, to which I said yeah, of course, because I was keeping a Harris hawk at the time and I just really wanted to work with birds as much as possible.

13:20 So that was like my opportunity in was through this company.

13:28 So what made you want to? Are you still there?

13:35 Yeah. Yeah, I'm still there mate all. Right. A bit of a lag today there. Yeah, I can hear you. So what made you have the bird, the Harris hawk? What was that about? Was that like a pet project or did you know you wanted to do it falconry wise? Was it a bit of a like, like a pet as such? Because I know the commitment, the commitment for for doing falconry is a bit like having a a kid, but not a kid. It's all year round. It is. Yeah, definitely, mate. Anybody who's wanting to get into falconry, it's seven days a week.

14:16 That's the first thing I'll say. Yeah. It it's a huge commitment. You can't just want to do it for like a day or a week or a month. It's it's a lifestyle. Yeah, because I've had, I've had obviously I've had other people on and I've said you've got to think about things like, well, if you go on holiday, what are you going to do? Christmas Day because you've got to still see the bird. Christmas Day, things like this. It's a whole commitment that you've got to have people in place just in case you're a war you something like that, because they've still got to be attended to.

14:59 It's a whole dedicated commitment to falconry. It is. Like I say, mate, it's a lifestyle, it's a passion. If it's your passion, you'll go fly your bird Christmas Day without any problems. You'll you'll want to, you'll enjoy it. That's it's such a such a passion, such a joy where anyone who flies birds of prey is so lucky to do so it.

15:25 Does I'll tell you to be honest, I love your videos on Holder Instagram and stuff and it's so cool with the music, but I can imagine it's very different when you when you do it. Oh, you there? I'm with you mate. Wait. I don't know what's happening there, but there is a tiny bit of lag I'll bring. I'll bring one of the Falcons in. OK, so if you're watching this podcast, you'll see a Falcon in a minute. If you're not watching the podcast, it's listening. Go and skip to a bit of the podcast on the video and you'll see it.

16:16 I'm talking to people that are watching after the fact on Apple Podcasts and whatnot.

16:25 Not whatnot. That's a video shopping platform, but all the other podcast platforms like video.

16:33 Hopefully the signals a bit better mate, but we'll see. So what's? So what's that hat about? So this is a hood. It's called a hood I. Can see from. It No, you can't see through it. This takes the eyesight away. This is what keeps him absolutely calm. Oh, OK, so you've got a hood on there. So he's completely calm at the moment. He's hoodwinked. Very. So would he not be calm if he took that off? He wouldn't be calm. I mean, he would be, to be fair, I think Ned would be all right. But to be fair for this podcast, just keep it on just just so he is calm and don't have to worry about it.

17:14 I mean, he's been flown and fed today. So to be honest, he he wants nothing to do with me anymore. He's he's quite chilled, quite happy, OK.

17:24 So that's that's Ned. What what is here? What? What breed is he? So he he's a hybrid. So he's a Gio Lana. He's a Gio Lana Falcon. So he's 2 Falcons in one. That's the best simple way of putting it. So Gio Lana, so he's absolutely fantastic. So one of our customers is a golf course and they have a problem with crows. The crows Peck at the green and it's turning the green over. It's looking bear, it's looking horrible. A lot of the golfers complain. This is a beautiful golf course and their key focus is sustainability and using natural solutions.

18:09 So we go there at the moment two to three times a week. We fly the Falcons and we fly the Hawks, and this is a great natural way of deterring the crows away from the golf course and so far we've had really, really good results. Is it starting to work then after crows let numbers going down? I think we started in March and we're now looking at the areas where they destroyed it and it the grass is growing back, the green is coming back. And yeah, it looks good. It's been effective.

18:45 OK. So you're introducing that predator to the crows. They're they're absolutely, you know, petrified of Falcons and Hawks. You're doing it three times a week. You're mixing up the days and the times that you attend. And then this is pushing them away. We also use other things like bioacoustics, which give off distress calls. So it sounds like a progress in distress. I've heard them. I have heard them before. They're really good. I think it works well as like an integrated pest management programme.

19:17 So using that with the birds, you stand really good chance of get rid of them or at least you're going to lower the activity. Yeah, I know. It's a really good eco friendly approach and that is the lot of high end. I would say you're probably on a high end golf course I would say. And they're they're very much into the the much more eco friendly approach. They are a lot of places are they are now. It's the kind of customer base that I'm personally looking at is people who want more natural solutions.

19:57 And I think next week I'm doing a survey for a agriculture college. They also want to see the birds of prey being flown to naturally deter the corvids. So again, hopefully we can do a good job there if they take us on, OK. Well, hopefully, hopefully you get it. So there was a question there and someone else is answering it saying it's not. It's not best practise anymore. What do I have with? It No, no, not that someone was saying someone wants to know is it true that to gain control over a Falcon you have to bond with it for two days straight, staying awake the entire time?

20:42 Someone's put that's not really the best practise anymore. That's is that not that's not true, no. So you don't want. So if we're training any hawk or Falcon, we wouldn't keep them awake for two days. We wouldn't try to break the bird in in such a way that. Sounds really old school that does that sounds. Like really old school. Yeah, I'm not sure about that one. It's not something we would do, that's for sure. It takes a lot more time than than two days. I'd imagine so, but yeah, that sounds like torture isn't fair.

21:13 You want to stay awake for two days? Yeah, a human being staying awake for two days is a lot. No, I definitely wouldn't be able to do that. Not anymore, that's for sure. No, no, no, I wouldn't want to do that. No, no, no, no, definitely not. So we've got Roxy here. Roxy is somebody I work with. Oh, OK. So if it's if you want to know anything about falconry, talk to Roxy. I'm sitting there on LinkedIn. I think she liked your post or something so I did a seems to be I think. Does she help? Does she work with you on some of these jobs where you have the the cool bird videos?

21:53 Does she work with you on that? Yeah, well, Roxy is actually a Falconer herself and she's been flying birds to prey for eight years and she's been working with some of the bigger companies. We both decided to go self-employed and with the golf course and a few other jobs we have, I've asked Roxy to help out and she's been just an absolute credit because the customers love her. I think the customers see the passion with us and the birds. They, they see good healthy birds. They see the birds flying.

22:29 And that's, that's how you're going to, you know, win, win over the customers and obviously deterring avian pests. But definitely. So a bit more technical question for you then. Not exactly technical but sure. How does it work for Falcon falconry when the bird flu bands are in place? How does it work? Can you still fly your birds? Yeah, I mean, I've never had any of the managers say anything to us. We've never been in any areas where there's bird flu. And, you know, we have to be extremely careful, OK?

23:08 None of our birds have ever had bird flu. So yeah, we've always been OK. Absolutely. That's good to hear. That is so obviously you mentioned that. Now let's go to that question. So what made you want to go self-employed in regards to, say, falconry and starting your own pest business up as such? Yeah, I think for me was, if I'm honest, when I did my level 2 training for pest control for your rodents, you know, your, your insects and the lore and everything like that. I'll say it for you, RSPH level 2 is.

23:49 That. Because, because as you know online now, if you say level 20, is that a real level 2 or is that yeah, now, yeah, yeah. Because it does say to you to prevent the science level 2. It is. But I knew what you meant but I dropped it in there for clarity. But sorry, carry on. Well, I actually, although I was working for a company, I, I paid for it myself. And when I got into obviously like the falconry, I, I paid for everything myself. So the birds, I paid for the GPS, the housing, the training, absolutely everything.

24:28 And that actually came up to about 5000 lbs. Wow, so. Well, yeah, yeah, it wasn't it. When I was working for a company and I was, I was kind of on a lower wage, shall we say, and I was doing, you know, rodent treatments, insect treatments, flying bird to prey. I, I kind of got to a point where actually I thought, you know what, I'm better off doing this for myself. I'm going to give it a go. I'm going to give it two to three months and see what happens. And to be fair, it's been the best decision I've ever made.

25:00 That's. Good. I suppose you're happier. Happier as well, because you can set your own terms now. You're not being told what to do. Oh yeah. It, it just, it's like purpose, you know, like if I, if I'm out there doing a good job, you feel great about it because you know it's the work you're putting in. But equally working like as a sole trader, self-employed, if things go wrong, that's, that's also down on, you know, that's down to me. And you have to take full responsibility for it. It's. Part of the learning experience, isn't it?

25:37 You learn from it. You do. Yeah, you have to fail to succeed to learn. You know, people save that and I believe in that. Yeah. So what? So with regard to when you went

25:52 by yourself, was it just, I know you've, was it just folk of me or was you actually actually doing pest control as well? Or was it just folk of me solely to start with? Or was it a bit of both? So for the first year I did both. I was doing, you know, I was doing a lot of subcontracting with the falconry and I was using Facebook check and trade, getting myself out there with business cards for it was mostly domestic pest control. So your rodents, your insects. And the thing I've found is that, well, to be honest with you, I completely burnt out.

26:31 I was working maybe 6-7 days a week most weeks with the birds and trying to cover all the domestic jobs for rodents and insects. And then the thing you quickly find out when you're self-employed, you're not just doing the pest control, but you're having to go home doing the reports, you're having to do the the accounts, your the social media, answering emails. And then before, you know, if you're working 6-7 days a week flying the birds or doing pest control, you've still got to go home and do everything else.

27:01 I was quickly doing like 15 hours a day. And I thought to myself, this is great. But to be honest, it's, yeah, it's not sustainable. You can't. You can't do that forever. No, it must be because obviously I'm not in the same situation because obviously I work with my dad. I do so, although we are one man, well, I'll say 2 man band. He does a lot of the paperwork, whereas I, I and he does the calls and that. But well, but when I was I take all the calls I do, but I've still got a lot to I've still got a lot to learn, though I will admit that I'm no, no one admits they're an expert.

27:40 You are right, but you have to wear all you have to wear all the hats and you more so because it's you're a whole business. It is. It's you. If you don't answer an e-mail, somebody's going to get RC with you because they they want your services. You know what I mean? So it's hard to it sounds good that you and your dad are working together. I hope one day I can find somebody who I can work with to kind of help grow the business. I don't think I would be able to do it on my own forever. No way. I.

28:13 Mean it gets to the but see, we've like for sake jumping back to Wasnes when you have a busy season, you can get to the point where you have to have like I went out in the car one day and did all the contracts, although the contracts we hadn't finished because the Wasnes were getting that busy that we were struggling to do both. So it can, it can a good moth is it can also sometimes we don't keep on contracts on top of your contracts. They can hammer you a bit. But we sorted it no problem. We did.

28:49 But but yeah, you might get, you could get to that point where you could probably take something on on in the future. Just it's a big, I can't speak because obviously he's my dad. I'm not deemed an employee. I'm a director. So it's different that you'd be looking for more of an employee. You would. One day, 100% yeah. But so that's different from that perspective. So what's the, what would you say in the neck? No, no scope on So what, because recently you've changed it up a bit and you've gone and joined the National Pest Technicians Association.

29:28 What was the move to that? Because it was not me swaying you in. I don't do that, do I? I did, I did. I just tell you what I think and then yeah, no. People think I try and push free, but I don't. I'm like, here's what I think. And if you just want to be part of the basis prompt, do it. I was like, it's up to you what what you want to do. I really appreciate it, like the advice you gave me and like I listened to it and of course I looked at all all options, but I felt for me that the MPTA was the best one to choose.

30:04 I mean, well, you've got three choices, haven't you? Don't join anyone. Join the BPCA or join the NPTA. And I think everyone's got their own opinions on it, obviously. Very. Very divisive opinion on as in as in which one you join, but you can't you can't just join the CPD body as well, but that's a that's a not join anyone option. If you want to use ridenticide now, you have to have a not all about you, but in general you have to have been a CPD body for next year. Well, you've got to beat it now.

30:40 But so there there not been anything, but it's not a lot, is it 40 something # a year for that bit it's. Not too bad, is it? It's worth. Whatever it is, someone's because I always see these posts come up, oh they're trying to RIP us off and someone go why someone puts all this money what, £40 a year? You don't have to join a trade body. It's not a lot of money not making that much money out of you. No, you don't have. To run a trade body, it's like you can if you want to, but have you, have you, have you been more positive?

31:10 Do you feel it makes you look more more professional, telling people you're now part of the trade body? Has it helped you in any way? I think it has. I think some customers will ask you, are you part of any, you know, body? Are you part of the MPTA or the BPCA? And a few times I was just like, actually, no, I'm not. And then you think, well, hard in a minute, maybe I should be. And I think it does display, you know, the professionalism of it and of yourself and the business. And with all the training they offer, I think it can only be a good thing.

31:44 And CPDI like that, if someone's a member, they're quite happy to talk to you and give you advice if you're, if you're struggling, it's all, it's all very positive. So I highly recommend it. That's good to hear me as long as it's been positive for you and you think it's making especially I suppose for the market they're supposed to market you're going for a lot of these golf courses have been say accreditation looks looks better if you've ever tried with trade body and yeah 100. Percent. But it but it does.

32:18 But yeah, I just thought I'd ask you because that because you are a new member, you're not. You've not been joined very long. No. You thought the process was like, I sign up and by the next day I mean, no, didn't you?

32:35 But my issue is I'm impatient. I'm just impatient. I'm like, I'm like that. It's like I want something. I want it. I want it now. Yeah, that's pretty much me. Sadly it's it's not a good way to be, but it is what it is. But no, it's, it's good to hear that you, you like that perspective. I mean, just to quote it from, you don't have to be a trade body. It's all personal decisions. But if you are, if you are buying identity site other next year, you have to be in a CPD scheme. You have to do your free crew points and you have to, I think, yeah, you have to get your 20 points and three of them have got to be crew points.

33:18 Basically. It's not, it's not very difficult. I will make a video, people definitely explaining it all because it's been still, it's people not understanding what they've got to do. It's it's quite simple, but I will make a I've been meaning to make a video about it because the information is everywhere. It's very, very simple. But I understand why people are worried because there's a lot of people panicking about they're not going to get the points in for next year, but I'm sure everyone will. They will so so you.

33:53 Oh OK and here here's the question. This is a bit more sensible from some of. Your friends. Where did you get the name MD Falconry from? Unfair Solutions, which I know that one. It's obvious isn't. It is. That is, that is, that is that from one of my friends. Yeah, yeah. Seriously, Sean, just block them, mate. Just block them. This is this is awful. It's going to get worse before it gets better, mate. Just block them. I. Don't imagine it's yours. Yeah, you're Michael Dow. And you do fold from it and you do pest control.

34:31 Best solutions? You'd think they would know that. Yeah, I think you'd think they would. But yeah, there's been, there's been a lot of, there's been a lot of chatting. It's been keeping the comments going on YouTube anyway. I'm glad I could bring them on, mate. I'm glad I could bring them on. But so with what with regards to training, have you have you managed to do any, any additional training this year or? To be honest. With the CPDI, suppose you're busy, ain't you? You are. You've been really busy.

35:12 I've been flat out like literally the bird work is always quite busy with the Hawks and the Falcons and then I got a phone call from my local council asking if I could look after the wasp nest because I won't go into it too much. One of their employees got stung by a wasp and she found out the hard way that she's allergic. So they straight away took her away from the wasp nest treatments and they phoned me and asked if I could take over, which was great for me. Obviously it's a good way of of kind of like slightly expanding out a little bit and meeting people.

35:55 I like to think if you do a good job, hopefully you know they remember this and you can get other work. But you know, it's, it's very early days and I was going to continue looking after them, do the Wasnes treatments and hope something good comes from it. Yeah, you're right, but. I would like to do some training courses and I have looked on the NPTA website and yeah some of the courses I'd love to do. Well, there's, there's loads of free ones on there. There is all your, all your free ones are on there.

36:31 You've got all your health and safeties. But obviously you've got a lot less time than me. It's all right saying it, but yeah, yeah. Yeah. Getting time for you to do it. I mean, you've got, you've got, you've also just wrote on the road days. I think they're about, you've got them too. I don't know if any any are ever near you or not. I think one of them was, yeah. Did you go? No, I didn't. But you. Laughed. I was to become a director and I the one was in Nottingham. Everyone thought I was going and they were like where?

37:09 Where are you? I was like, I was busy so I'm making sure I'm going to the next one in Nottingham and the one in Peterborough because I wanted one in Peterborough. I was like, come on, Peterborough central to a lot of pest controllers. So it's in the diary now. It's happened. So I had to book it because I was the one saying Peterborough. There's the new location there. So I haven't actually been to any actual in person events this year. The first one will be Pestech in in November. I should I say I should know it.

37:46 I hope we organised the thing so I should know it. It is. Hold on, let's have a look. Where's my calendar? November because I've got no podcast booked that week obviously. So it is and I, it's on the Wednesday. So yeah, it is Wednesday the 5th of November. It's Pestech at Milton Keynes, MK Dons, Marshall Arena. If I will be are you, are you, are you going down or not? Yeah, 100%. I want to grab Roxy and just get her going as well. And then hopefully we can both go in November and kind of just meet people really and just it would be nice to.

38:28 Yeah, but not stay alive. It really would, yeah. Even you know, I've not met you in person yet. It'd be nice to obviously meet you in person, but just just everyone really like anyone who wants to chat. It'd just be nice to, you know, whether it's work related or wherever it wherever else it may be. That was usually a lot of, I can't remember, I can't obviously say about this year, but last year there was. They're fucked. They have Falcons there. Yeah, daily. Last year Daily Environmental were there with all their birds talking to people.

39:01 They were very well known company. Good falconers, yeah. Yeah, daily, daily. Oh yeah, that was that was last year's, but we'll see what this year's. We'll see what this year. But as I can't obviously say yet, but a few bits have been let out of the bag on that. But yeah, that's that. So that's the first in person one I'll be going to this year. OK. I've already got like 42 points. So you're right. Well, on basis prompt, I've got the 23 I have. You see a British pass register, I'm on both. You see, I'm basis prompt, British press register.

39:41 You can log a lot more things or points than you can on basis basis prompt. You can log 6 podcasts or I can log every single beauties and beasties podcasts going. Anything I learn on though I get even more on the other register. It's self registering. OK, that's cool. But I know you're with basis prompt, didn't you? You are to get you started. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the British Pest register as well. Oh, what? You went with both. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted to just assess which which to you know, what they offer and which one I like the best really are.

40:21 You to get your points logged. The British pass register is the quickest and that's not. Not saying that, but I bet you've heard the comment a lot online, haven't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely yeah, yeah. So yeah, I mean, I'll. See what you think? Isn't it really so you? Think everybody's going to like their own thing and it's whatever works for you? It is so. Have you come into any difficulties or say cons,

40:54 negatives? Obviously being just you by yourself, it's negatives, distress and the extra work or has there been any, any kind of challenges It might help others like any pros and cons, obviously, but go for the cons where because obviously you brought it up in the pest control groups. There's always these questions come up there. I don't know if there were go that alone. I'm working for a company, I don't know what, I don't know what to do. And it comes up time after time after time. It does not these groups it does.

41:28 Whenever I'm on Facebook, I always see it. It's like, you know, somebody works for a company, they say, should I go self-employed? What are the pros? What are the cons? And for someone who's been doing it for two years now, I could quite happily tell you what the pros are and I can tell you what the cons are. It's like anything in life, there are pros and cons. I think the problem is it's bit of like a myth. When people think they're going to go self-employed, they think that everything's going to be rosy and everything's going to be amazing.

41:58 You can just do what you want and you get more time to yourself. It's the complete opposite. That's what I found is that actually I don't take any days off at the moment. I can't remember the last time I had a week or two weeks off. Now, admittedly, it's because I work with birds and it's a lifestyle. You're with them seven days a week. And I've made that choice and I'm I'm happy with that. But you know, if you take a day off when you're self-employed, you're not going to get paid for it, are you?

42:30 No, you're not. I think that's a con. Obviously, like, you know, everybody loves money, but if you take time off, you're not going to get paid. You've. Got to build that. You've got to build a bank balance of get a big bank balance in the bank first. How can you guarantee that? How can you guarantee it? You can't. No, you can't. You can't. I'll give you like an example. I've worked my socks off and I did a really good month and then the month later the turbo on my van went. And you know, I'm quite open about this.

43:05 By the time I had it fixed and by the time I'd hired another van. Now, maybe this was a bad business choice. I I don't know, but you got to live and learn, you know, it's £5000 down.

43:19 So you know, yeah, I think for some people that would most probably take you out. The game with this was like early days. This was like first like 6 months. Well, yeah, you're right. A lot of people that when they took out, if you're still starting off on your own right in the battle, you're still there. Oh, mate, you, you won't stop me. I, I get tired, but you won't stop me, that's for sure. But yeah, you know, of course the hardest part, I think maybe when you're starting off on your own and maybe you don't have all the connections or whatever it is, is, is finding your customers and then doing a great job and then keeping your customers.

44:05 I think that's so important and that can be a challenge sometimes. I'll tell you what that is all to my dad always said because we we're a lot of our was Nest customers, not all of them, but a lot of them are pair people that say oh, so and Mr so and so. I did a was Nest for us two years ago and we get a lot of repeat business with regards to was Nest. But I'm not saying which companies, but there are companies, big, big companies out there. They basically try and get the highest price they can or don't do the job properly, etcetera and they lose the customers, whereas we'd rather, we'd rather do a good job and try and keep that customer happy.

44:52 Then they ring us or they recommend you and that is always try and keep them happy. Even if it's not always try and keep them happy because they'll they'll recommend you or they'll come back to you in the future. And it can happen where sometimes someone don't know what don't know what, not saying obviously who over the years it's done a whatness it's not worth and they rang them back to get them back and they won't come back or they won't answer the phone, whereas we will return to fix the problem.

45:23 Wait, wait. And that's not a local competitor by the way, at all. That's not big ones. Just think big ones but the. Great thing about whatsness I've found as well. It's it's like quite a small job, I would say, but I've, if you just look at my cheque trade, I've only been on there three weeks. I've had really good reviews so far. I've done a good job for a customer through cheque trade and a was nest and then that's led on to something else. So like this agriculture college I'm going to survey next week that's come from a was nest job.

45:58 That he's really good. I'll be honest, you've hit gold there if you get it. That's really. Good, I hope. But you wouldn't then. You wouldn't have thought during the boss nest could have led to a survey for for a potential contract. Which is which is good. It is. So the the chap I did it for, he was a tree surgeon and he was like quite impressed with the with the work I did. He, he actually met Ned with me as well. He was very happy to meet Ned and he asked a lot of questions about the birds. He asked a lot of questions about what I do and he didn't even tell me he was going to do it.

46:38 I just got an e-mail from this college asking if if I could come do a survey and how interested they are in seeing the birds, prey, fly, etcetera, etcetera. And they've asked about some proofing works as well. So yeah, just a little wasp nest job can completely change it for you. We can, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm really impressed from that perspective because obviously not the same kind of elk, but we wanted to wasp nest for somebody and we ended up, we ended up landing a contract on a, on a commercial.

47:10 In fact, we've had it for a few years now. And it was all because he says, do you do normal pest controls? Yeah, do everything, anything we don't do as we don't do birds we don't but boxes or everything else. Yeah. And that that was from Boss Ness. But because she but as you say, like like when my dad first started, he didn't get his first job for six years. It six months, sorry, six months. And it's something he built upon. He did it on the side as a side business to start with and he built it up over time.

47:47 But like he said, he had no contacts. Like you, he had nothing. OK. So it's it's getting all them connections. It took him a long time to get to the point where he took me on. It took him a long time to to get there. But I'd imagine this. Is what's so rewarding. It's it's a lot more different. There's more ways to get your name out there now than the wars when he started. It's very different now, but it's still getting your name out there. But it's worked for you though so far. So check of trades worked.

48:18 You were right. In, in, in that sense, yeah, 100%, yeah, 100% it's worked. But then this is the other thing. When you're self-employed, you're going to, you have to be the salesman and or saleswoman, you have to sell the job, you know. So I'm going to have to do this survey next week, which I'm excited for. But of course, you've got to let the customer know why you're coming in, what you're going to do. And, you know, I've never been a surveyor. I've never had to sell jobs before. It's that it's another skill, you know?

48:49 Oh no, I 100% agree. I'm not, I'm learning, I'm I'm not the best at selling, but over time I've become better. Like I'm I'm still waiting to use this, this thing Mark Porter told me to do. What main concern? What's your concern? Listen back to the Mark Porter podcast before you go to the survey. I've listened to it. I remember this. I remember this. Yeah. That's the one and I haven't had. I haven't got to try it yet on a new place, but I'm going to do it. I am. That's good, yeah. Hopefully that should help you.

49:26 But you are right, it doesn't come natural to a lot of pest controls like me. I'm not natural salesman, but you've kind of you've got to be as well. You've got to try to be. You have to, but you don't believe in yourself. The author You don't want to come off as too pushy always what I've you need to strike a balance, don't you as well? Yeah, and that's the skill. That's the skill, isn't it? Like, yeah, definitely, yeah. I think as long as you're confident in what you're doing and what you're selling, realistically it shouldn't be a problem.

49:58 But yeah, it just, I think it just, it just takes time, you know? It does. It does. It's it's like what you're one of your friends called Ian Woods too. There's a right party. There's a right party going on on YouTube. I've ignored most of it. Yeah, that's the deal on NATA. Rather, they're right. Oh, Natalie. Yeah, yeah. But. Is it helping? Is it helping to grow to YouTube? Like if they chat. Well, probably, yeah, the algorithm is probably, I don't, I don't really know, but they are chatting, but.

50:36 Just don't repeat anything the same mate. Right. But, but yeah, you're right. It's a, it's a, it's a new thing you're learning and it's about the site. I mean, I, I think you'll be all right. Because they're obviously keen to to use to try a different approach, maybe birds or yeah, just try and lie, Yeah. The head gardener's obsessed with birds of prey, so Oh well there. You go, then you might have your foot in the door. See if you if you if the head's garden like like you might be in the door. They're the ones who used to keep happy on certain sites.

51:14 They're the ones who used to keep happy, definitely, you know? He's the one who's called us in. He's the one who wants to see the birds. But you know, it's it. To be honest, it's quite easy to sell with birds of prey because people love them. But you do need to remind the the customer of like, you know, why we're here. It's a service to to naturally deter avian pests. And that's what we're coming in to do. But you know, it's great seeing the birds, holding the birds, watching them fly. But we're there to to get rid of, you know, corvids, goals, pigeons, whatever it may be.

51:52 And that's your question. I know this, I know the answer. You can't use birds of prey to actually attack animals, can you? No, we don't. No, no. No, no, no. So I heard, I heard something called an American podcast where they can it's so really I, I don't know whether it's right or not, but I, I heard that they, they went to squirrels and stuff like that, but. I mean, you can hunt squirrels if you want. If you've got a really good red tail hawk, yeah. Maybe, yeah. I was like, they can't, they can't do that in England as far as I'm aware that that's not a they're just a deterrent.

52:27 They are. Yeah, that's what we do. It's a natural deterrent. And the the other thing is you wouldn't want to. Like if I was flying one of the Hawks and I caught a pigeon, that pigeon might be riddled with diseases which can be transferred onto my hawk. You could. You could. I may have got the wrong end of the stick of it, but it did sound that way but I might have got the wrong. Yeah. I'd like to hope. I would like to hope I got the wrong end of the stick. Because once again, though, they they don't really do what they're told today is that, is that correct?

52:56 Exactly, I was just about to say that if one of my birds has got a full crop from a pigeon and I show it a chick, it's not going to come back. So what's the trait, you know, when you get a like, how do you keep like say someone's getting to folk from it? How do you do it? Do you have to buy a bird or you have to go and do training first? Or how how does it work for someone? What is doing folk from me? What's the process? Everybody's got a different approach and what I'd also say is in this country, sadly there is no like route to follow, which is like professionals so to speak.

53:34 This is what I've found anyway. A lot of people will go on to the Five Days Raptors Awards course. Personally, for me, I found a mentor, a decent mentor. So when I say a mentor, I'm talking about someone who flies. So the guy who taught me, Nigel Hawkins, he's flying eagles, he's flying Hawks, he's flying Falcons, He's a, he's a true Falconer, not just somebody who's had a Harris hawk for 20 years and, and bangs on about how great he is. That's, that's going to get you nowhere. So I had a really good mentor who taught me absolutely everything I needed to know.

54:13 And then the rest you kind of have to go out on your own and you know, you have to fly birds to learn. It's the only way, I think. But obviously you're going to be. It's there, it's there. Like if someone was interested, is there a way somebody could say not to you or someone else? I'm interested, could I come and watch you? Would that be recommended as well, like to come and watch you or something? No or. Not I get so many people asking, oh, I want to do your job, I want to do what you do. And yeah, they think it's, they see a pretty bird, they see it on the glove or they see it flying well.

54:50 And they just think, you know, it's that easy. And I always say to them, look, it's seven days a week. You need to understand it's seven days a week. And I don't think people fully understand that until you keep birds, you wouldn't realise just how much time goes into it. If, if a guy's flying a bird or even walking through London with a, with a tame healthy bird, it's because that person's put a lot of work into that bird. If they look like they're you know, they're in hate swear here, but like crack feather and they're facing off the glove and they're screaming, you know that this guy or lady has no idea what they're doing.

55:30 Does that happen then does that happen? I don't know. Because I've seen it, I've seen it our shows. I've seen, yeah, the birds just baiting off. I've seen all the feathers in bad, bad way and in a bad way. And yeah, you're just being, you know, you're not, you're not showing falconry in in a good light. I'm. Surprised though it shows shit they get away with that because people look a bit nowadays. People are bringing the RSPCN stuff over, stuff like that, don't they? They're very you don't know what I'm saying is you know what?

56:02 You know what changed? 20 fives like the way the world is. The camera phone comes out. It does. Oh, oh, look at this animal. I was dealing with a property the other day that had a goal trapped in the netting and they called someone called the RSPCA, but to be honest, they they didn't really do much. No, that's just that's one instance. I'm sure they're great and you know, I know they are, but in this example we didn't, we didn't really see much happening. So I don't know, I don't know enough about it to be honest.

56:36 But with that one experience, that's what I witnessed. I. Mean you can't go on what you see. You can't. Yeah. Yeah, but I'm sure they do a lot of great things behind the scenes. And I imagine what they was this netting higher on top of a house. No, this was on a a building, so like offices. And what happened? They had taken the netting down. Oh, because they were going to do some construction work. But when I say they're taking the netting down, they've just left it in like a bundle all over the rooftop.

57:06 And the goal was stuck in in the the herring goal was stuck. In the that the person didn't want to go up go up on top of a building. Maybe. Who knows? The ladders and stuff, they probably didn't want to go up there. They just didn't seem too fast, to be fair. But hey. Oh, OK, maybe. Maybe it's too. I don't know. Yeah, I didn't see, I was only there briefly, but what I saw there wasn't much going on, which was a real shame, but yeah. I mean, did you release the goal? Did you go in the 9? I'm not too sure.

57:40 Can't contain contain. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when I'm next back on that job, maybe I can ask and hopefully get an honest answer, but. Who knows, but yeah. Yeah, Have you ever? What's it called? I've obviously heard Beauties and Beasties podcast. They've had, they've had a few folkers on, oh, a couple I can't remember.

58:10 And there was mention that do you go into these folk and regroups? They reckon they're quite not a good place to go. And that was it. Sean Mooney was on about it because one of his labs has now got got they do folk. He's really into it. And he said the group, the groups on Facebook are very toxic. They're not very, they're not very friendly places to be. If you want to learn they're not, do you? Do you go in them or not? Yeah, so I'm part of a Facebook group. I think most people will refer to Falconry Hub.

58:46 OK. And to be fair, it's tricky. Like when you get in, when you say like you've been flying birds, prey maybe for like 5 years and you're flying Falcons, you're flying Hawks, you're doing a good job and someone comes up to you and says I want to do what you do and you know how much hard work you've put into it. And then you've got someone who just sees something and they don't really see the full picture and they're asking you to train them like just randomly or they're asking certain questions.

59:18 I think some people just get a bit annoyed about it. I appreciate it. I can see what you mean, maybe because people might say the same for if someone kept saying can you teach me pest control going to a course, a lot of people would say, but you are right. It's just it's more, it would be harder. I think it would be harder to become a Falcon and it would be a pest control because there's more commitment with regards to the bird. There is. I think there's a lot more commitment obviously because there is.

59:50 You said that, but I can't. I can't see why people would get a bit ratty. So from that perspective, what you've just said? Yeah, and a lot of the guys on there are a bit older than us, shall we say. And you know, they just, they haven't got time for it. You know what, I don't blame them. I kind of get it. But at the same time, I do get it if you're new and you really want to do it and you're passionate about it and you're generally asking for help because you know you want to do it. You will struggle, you will find it hard because there's very few people, good people, who will want to teach you falconry.

1:00:27 No, I, I, I understand that it's, it's, well, it is a specialised area of our industry, very specialised. It's not, it's not something I don't think the pest, I don't think it's not even something pest control companies could even run courses on. Don't get me wrong, I'd say the likes of D league could probably do their own for their own staff coming in, but it's not a thing like they could really run on a regular or anyone. But say a company like D how big they are. They've got their own actual volcanry division.

1:01:05 They could probably if someone's experienced in volcanry, they could come in and they could do a bit like that. But I don't imagine that you know how you see, you know, pest control courses, etcetera. I don't think that's something that could be done with falconry. I've never seen it and I think that's the reason why. As to what you've said, it's not something that can be done really. I mean falconry and using birds of prey for pest control. 2 completely different things. You know, falconry is a sport, it's an art.

1:01:35 Flying a Harris hawk or possibly, you know, a Falcon for pest control is is different, you know, you know, I follow one of the ladies from Deeley's on Instagram and she's she's brilliant. She's a great Falconer, but she's a Falconer first. Yeah. I think that's important to be a Falconer first to understand falconry and the birds of prey. And then if you want to do it as a job where you can have a business or possibly make money, it's looking to pest control if you do it properly. Well, there's some good tips there for people that want to get into falconry.

1:02:17 It's trying to have a home. The fact that it is a major commitment, it's like having a kid basically without having a kid. If you get the commitment I mean. Yeah, definitely. And look, I'm still learning myself. I think any decent Falconer is always learning about their birds, about other birds, about Valkyrie in itself is I'm still learning and there's many better falconers than me. But The thing is I'll always be honest and I'll always do my best to learn. And I think if you're always put in the bird 1st and you're trying to do the best for the bird, you're going to be on a good path.

1:02:54 That's. Good. Then it's some good advice. That is because it's definitely, it's an area. It's an area people like to hear on podcasts about birds. It's not something that comes up so much in our industry, even though it is it is part of the industry. It's I hate to say this though, that compared to our industry, it's the more niche section, isn't it? There's not as many folk and rain in certain areas. It's a highly, highly needed area and say, say, say waste sites areas you do in London, places like that.

1:03:34 It is. It is needed because from what I gather what I'm but in between the lines from what you've said and other people, it's a lot of big companies as well subcontract people like you to do their work. I don't know if you do suffer anymore, but a lot of them, all the big nationals, they subcontract people out to do their work for them rather than having their own in house team, they do as well. I mean, I think a lot of them would prefer to have in house, but again, it comes down to have you got somebody who's committed to falconry, to birds?

1:04:13 Have you got someone who? Knows what they're. Doing can, can they house them correctly? Do they know what they're doing? Are they doing the weight management correctly? You know everything. And generally, if, if I'm being honest, most of the subcontracting I've got at the moment is, is because the guy they've taken on full time is most probably lied about it. They've done a really bad job and then you know, something's gone wrong and they, they've had to subcontract it out. That's not all companies.

1:04:44 There's some great companies out there, don't get me wrong, but it it has happened. OK, OK, someone called Callum. Oh God, yeah. Back on Facebook.

1:05:02 Yeah, he's having a party here, isn't he? Oh, it's out somewhere else. Or is he? Is he coming from YouTube? Now he's on Facebook. No, no, no, no. He's coming from everywhere, mate. That's what he does.

1:05:16 But he just said hi. That was all. Is that it? Yeah, out of the minute. Just blocking mate. I need to follow us. I'll keep him in there. Yeah, well, I hope I'm kind of giving some insight to like being self-employed falconry. I mean, this is my first first podcast. I'm very nervous but I'll. Be honest, I think you've done very well. OK, I'm quite a good judging character on who's you don't look nervous, that's all but but I've been doing it a long time. Obviously this is 26 podcasts in in pest control, but I used to previously do it without me and the more of an audio podcast and I've done it for years.

1:06:07 I've done podcasts since 2020 all. Right. I used to interview people as well, but it was in gaming, the gaming related setting. But now it's all on video. So obviously over the years I've got better and better. Then eventually I'll it wasn't always the plan. I was like, I'm going to do a pest control podcast. I had a word with the beauties and beasties first to see what they thought about it. Yeah, obviously I don't want to upset the apple cart, but they were fine with me. I don't. I'm not on the same night as them and I do offer, even though we I do interview people, I do come at things at a slightly different angle as well.

1:06:45 It's not always the same, the same. So you do learn something. I try and bring a different angle what I do with it? Yeah, but competition's good, right? There's two podcasts, you've got 2 to choose from. Yeah. There's 2, but it's more, it's like Sean said, it's more, more, the better, more help educate people more, more information. And I think to be honest, they've been great. And Callum said you said you've done a great job on the podcast. He must have been watching. He reckons you've done well.

1:07:15 Cheers, Callum. That's very nice of you mate. There we go. That's a nice comment for. You, you've done a great job mate. Did he call me mam or man? Man. Man. OK, good. Of course, all man. No, I took it away too quickly. But yeah, thanks for coming on SO. No, thank you, mate. Thank you very much. It's good to come. It's good to have you want. Anyone's listened and they kind of like want a friendly chat about maybe that you're worried about going self-employed and you want a bit of advice. I'd be more than happy to talk to anyone and to talk to people about the pros and the cons.

1:07:53 If you want to know a bit more about birds of prey, I'm always happy to talk about it. But really, if you want to know the insurance and outs, talk to Roxy. She will teach you everything you need to know. She's she's probably like, you shouldn't have said that, but the end might blow up now.

1:08:14 That's all right. I don't mind. I might have to see if I could get Roxy on the podcast. Yeah, I think you should, mate. You remember back in the day when they used to do that water bucket challenge and you know they throw the water over your head and then you give Nate? Yeah, well, next time I think you should get Roxy on it. The. Water bucket challenge you ain't. Yeah. But no, no, no. Well, yeah, you can Chuck a bucket of water over if you want, but no get around. Yeah, yeah, we're on for the stay in the future if she wants to.

1:08:45 I'm always, I always like to get different people on, but I'm never, I never pressure anyone. If someone doesn't want to, I just say I won't. I won't be offended. I always tell people I'm not because it ain't for some people, because. No, no, no. Sure mate, she'll she'll love it. Get Roxy on here. Thanks for watching. Yeah, and please. I don't know if you've got Carl coming on, but do you? Talk to Carl, I'm sure. Did I? I don't. I'm sure I speak to him, Yeah. Is he from? Is he from? That's it. I'm Yeah.

1:09:23 He said he'd consider it in the future. I'm sure he did. I can't remember if it was him. I'm sure it was. I asked him again at some point. Have you got anyone you want to come on the podcast? Nah, just Roxy mate. OK. Or maybe Callum? Is he in pest management? No. No, but he's an electrician mate. He's a pretty good one to be fair. But no, I'm sure we've seen a few rats before. Well, my, my, did you see my electrician mate that tagged me in a post the other day on TikTok? No, someone's lost. Yeah, he's put it on Instagram.

1:10:02 I'll send you it. The video. He's about some poo in in someone's loft, big poo. He's like, he sends me poo pictures of rats and all, and he actually put the video on and tag me. He's like when you've got a pest control mate that likes seeing turds. I was like, I think it's a cat and someone's part. I think it's ours. I don't know what it is but he got about 8000 views on TikTok. It does. Right, well get Callum start sending me some pictures then. Or I'll, I'll send you the the Instagram post. He's on all the platforms now, but he's an electrician.

1:10:43 He's he's got into YouTube now. He's got a YouTube channel. He does all video electrical videos and that he's paid a lot of money multi electrician. He's he paid the YouTube course. He's trying to grab his business for YouTube as well and content. But yeah, sorry about that beyond bringing up bringing up Ted on the podcast, but there we go. It is, it is rated not for kids anyway. I always rate it not for kids just in case but But yeah, thanks for coming on. And you will if you win the British pest register.

1:11:18 If you want you will be able to block your CPD once I've I've done it. Or you can self register either way, but you're probably looking at an hour one point and 15 minutes one point probably. But yeah, thanks for watching everyone and. Cheers guys. Next, next week, let's have a look. I'm going to, I'm going to tell you who I've got. Always forget. Oh, I've got I've got Nathan Clark from Petty Force.

1:11:51 He's actually from my area. He runs into my my areas as well. So yeah, that's, that's a different spin. Having someone that's been better. I mean, I had Mark and George on from Best Force Northampton and although we're technically not competitors, they do they do because he does a lot of B work in a way. I don't do BS but he is kind of local to me. So I thought different spins, getting more local people on as well, but not everyone wants to come on. But yeah, well, yeah, that's fair enough. Yeah.

1:12:26 So I appreciate your time, mate. Thank you. Thanks. Michael for coming on no. Cheers, Sean. Oh, and I'll have a good night. I'll see you, I'll speak to you soon and I'll see everyone, everyone on the next podcast or if you're listening on demand, give us a review, Spotify review. It would do great. Spotify, the honourable platform, honestly, for downloads, it does really well. But yeah, thanks everyone. I like. Have a good night, Michael. Take care, Sean, Take care. And you take care. Alright, Thank you.