Pest Control Industry Talk: Business, Podcasts & Life in the Trade | Sean Mooney

0:02 Hello, welcome to Perspectives episode 50. Would you believe it on the magical number Sean Mooney's? Come on, the two Sean's are on the same podcast. How are you doing mate? I'm all right, fella. How? Are you good? I'm OK. Cheers. Thanks for filling in, Jim. He couldn't make it.

0:24 Oh, he actually, he actually gave me a call. He said I feel bad. He said I'm doing this job and he says it's not worked out right and access equipment wasn't right, so we've got to go back and it's looking like Tuesday. And he said it's night work, we've got to do it. And he says I definitely want to come home because I've been looking forward to it. So he let me know in plenty of time. He actually called me. He did as well. He did. So, yeah. So you've been up too much this week. I know you're a busy man.

0:56 You man have managed money everything at the money, including moving. No, people say that, you know, but I don't have half as much on as people would think. So obviously I have kill light and I have the soft light, which is pretty much the same thing. That's. Just done and then, you know, it's all under the same thing really. It's all the same system. So that's two things. Football with the with the oldest boy, My youngest 1 isn't old enough to go yet. Probably the oldest one is football or I think he does some sort of physical activity about 5 * a week finish where it could take for them.

1:36 You know, I love doing but other than that, if I'm honestly sure I don't do a huge amount, but obviously that's enough to fill the hours and so I won't think some mega busy but I'm no busier than anybody else. It's just see what I do, whereas a lot of people don't sure what to do I think. No, that, no, that's true. It's it's because I'm always working on something. I am, I've got all sorts of things. I'm working on the podcast, obviously all sorts of bits to the business. You know, I'm now going to a I'm part of a business scheme, you know, locally that's funded by the government.

2:17 It's called Think Rutland and you get like business local. They help you get better at being better at your business. You know, they teach you what sales forecasting is, pricing, any help you want. I've just recently got a business grant, etcetera, things like that. And it's it's been really good. It has, it just showed me how much I don't know about business. It did. I'm still learning. There's that much to it. There is, but that's what they help you they do. So it's so it's good. It is. Yeah, Yeah.

2:53 That's exactly what it is, isn't it? Like we, I don't even pretend to be good in business. We just kind of figure it out as we go along and fight the fires and maternal. But I think that's probably true of most people maybe I don't know. Yeah, I don't think I'm not good so. Yeah, no, I think, I think it's, it's obviously you've got, you've got labs and you know, just me and my dad. So you're a little bit bigger than us, but you, you do a lot of bean removal, don't you? Do you do, do you do, do you do the proper job a full drain surveys?

3:30 Do you do the full drain surveys like David does? Do you do them? As well. Yeah, yeah. So we've done our biggest one was probably over like 100 branches. Wow. I think it was about 1010 miles, but it's not, it's not so much the size, the train survey for me, it's more the level of effort that you've put into to actually survey in the drains. Because if you haven't, if you haven't bought a camera, you haven't pushed a camera. There's obviously the fairy tale of a via camera will shut up the lane. We'll find where the rats are getting in and we'll, we'll have the answer and the solution.

4:12 But it's not uncommon for us to not be able to find the bulk. That's the first thing. Oh. OK. Like, you know, if you've got a big scenario, you've got that. We have at the minute we believe we have 2 hidden gullies at the back of our house that run into the rainwater system. OK. Set up, there's no way of searching them.

4:42 So basically you'd have to just smash, dig the floor basically just to have a look. Is that what you're saying? No. Fucking I don't know, that's sure. I don't know. We're going to have to. This is where, this is where it gets interesting because you've got to, you've got to figure it out. We're probably, I think the solution is we'll ring the the water authority. We'll ask where their where their minds are. We'll try and then go to where they are and then we'll push from there or possibly hopefully I can cross your fingers like went to 1 today.

5:20 Everything is dropping into a main line and you don't know which main line. Well, you know which main line as you cut as your customers because you can put some water through it, flush the taps like those. What the what the junction above and below leads to there could be an old tile there could be anything and you're getting the camera up to the side of the wall search it to do this to do that So if you think you're going to buy a camera push it around the house and find out where it is it's definitely not the case definitely 1010% not the case.

6:00 There's a lot of, you know, daily will be a different kind of fish because let's remember, Davey's not a pest controller by train drains.

6:13 We're above ours and stuff like that. And he'll have a good idea of what's going on. But for us, we have to get our note down and do things so hardly, you know, and I'll ring for advice. I'm not, I'm not a bullet. I'm not going to tell you we're the best of the world. I'll bring the advice better than the rest and see. Yeah. I suppose a lot of it's like pest control though as well where it's on the job learning when you first put that camera in the drain, not as imagine it's all all learning as well.

6:46 You're always learning even though you've been doing it a few years now haven't you? You're still learning and imagine sometimes you have found the where the you have found where the issue is a lot of the time, haven't you? I imagine. Most of the time. So yeah, the times when you when we don't, when we haven't. We had a house that was built on a brownfield site. Oh. OK, like the old drains were left in. We know the old drains were left in, but everything had been concreted over. It was a lot of farmers.

7:24 The farmer had converted to small bonds. When he thought it was the drain, he went and dug out the mana, solve it.

7:37 So then you're like, it was a big old deep thing as well, so you physically can't get into it. So these are the ones that we, these are the ones that we're aware of. But like, yeah, I don't know. I think we probably have another. So the 90% success rate of finding them after it. Yeah, but like you think you're going to be, but I promise you, if anyone's going to do, I promise you what happens. You'll end up going to the same spot 3 or 4 times trying to work out what's going on when you first start.

8:12 Like that's what we did. You've got to be dogged when you first start because you're going to start seeing things that you don't have a criminal on your I. Suppose Jason's. You're right, Jason Nice in chat, he said. Do you use smoke in any of the drains? We have, we have done Jason, but usually just to prove to the customer when where the fault is. We've certainly, we certainly have used smoke. If you've got, I don't know, maybe you've got a place where you're not quite sure if it is or it isn't.

8:51 So you know, you've got to remember your camera will be facing forward. But as a general rule, I think if you're relying on smoke, this is just my belief is that you probably need to be pushing your camera further farther than in the more places because you know, there's there's not many, it's not many jobs. I can see where Smoke's going to give you the answer. Like your cameras and that that's my. OK, but yeah, so it's you know, it's I'm doing Davies course next month actually in Burton on Trent.

9:27 I'll germ. I am it does sound. I've spoke, I've spoke to a few people. David says to me, he says it's the same course been over the years, Sean, but he said I've added some visuals and more pictures and videos and stuff, He said, but he says I'm sure you'll like it. He said it's a very packed day, but it. Should be good because Doctor Clive about this Clive release we be course I don't know he's he's never delivered the same course twice because every course there's something from the people from the circumstances from this from and he just constantly updates it so the foundation course of we be removal today is a different course foundation in honeybee removal that we did many years ago but.

10:17 On that right, David, probably, it probably is the same, but he's, you know, he's added on to it over time. That's probably what I meant, to be honest, no. That's exactly what I mean. Yeah, that's what I mean. You just haven't heard as. You go, don't you? So, yeah, yeah. Because I'll let me ask you a few questions, what you've done this week. May just some just done some on tracks, some golf course and pubs just just just normal contracts really monthly contracts. They are right and obviously we've got to mess are.

11:01 Most of your contracts monthly, 6 weekly, weekly. What are you doing with them? We always do. We always now we do. We have got some quarterlies, not as many, but we've got most of them are monthly. But that doesn't mean we'll go back in a month. It could be like 2 weeks. You know, we use, it's random when we go, but we go before the month end. But quite often it's technically not monthly. It's before the date. If you see what I'm saying, because I told somebody monthly, I says, well, it's not exactly spot on a month.

11:34 It's, it varies on, on, on which job it is because obviously we're going to 1 area, we're going to hit them all at once. Yeah, You know, so, but I haven't got any big contracts probably like you've probably got them where it takes half the day to do them. I haven't got anything like that. I hear people do farms where they spend the entire day there. I haven't got anything like that. Probably 13 boxes is probably our biggest one. We haven't got, we haven't got big ones as such. We haven't. I think we've got a couple of 60s, seventies and the 80s.

12:12 Oh, I've got any of them. No, not yet anyway. We haven't. We don't. We don't really. We've got a farm. It's not a farm. It's I've got two big grain stores. It's not. There's no farm animals. But we don't go after farms. I'm not. I'm not a big fan of them. I'm not. We don't obviously talk farm. I'm not the best at communicating with farmers. I'm not in general. We've had a lot of bad luck with farmers we have. But it's it's weird though, isn't it? Because it's definitely certain jobs or certain people who can build a business off bonds like I know through doing the software, I can think several.

13:11 I think of one man, one man that he's just switched your software. I speak to him nearly daily. Sam Tricky, he absolutely loves farms and he said to me today, he said he says make sure you tell, he tells Sean that his software has revolutionised his business. He's honestly, he's not taking the money because he was pen and paper. He does big sites where because I actually asked him, I said, oh, no, he says it's about 3, three to six pages worth of reports. He does. And he's he says he's, he's really helped his business.

13:46 But he's also said while praising him, tell him that black dogs are no good for rats. That's what he said. That's that's what he said. Black dogs are that good, you wouldn't waste them on rats. Tell them that. He watched it. He he will watch it. I'm telling you I. Will tell him I can go around the cat and dog shop and I can get kind of handful of dogs. I could get numerous dogs I could kill that you know, you know no, that's decent. Doesn't go there because that's that'll sound required. I will, I will.

14:21 But he says that will get him going. He will. But but now he absolutely, he does dairies, he does all sorts and he, he, he absolutely loves it. He's got, he's got that much work. He's, you know, he's he's got, he's rammed to work, but he does a lot where you spend the entire day on the site and things like that. He just likes shooting as well. Night shooting and, you know, he's got doggies, you know. Yeah, but he was pen and paper before. Yeah. I never thought he'd go digital, but he did in the end.

14:54 He said it's made life a lot easier. I said to him, you're right. It says your kind of work. It says I know I tested Sean software. I says, but your kind of work is bang on the point for for that kind of work, because that much you're right and I didn't know this about your software. You don't advertise it much. He said if you input all the data of what findings you've had, either what, how many rats or mice, etcetera, He says it actually does trend analysis. I didn't know that I. Just. Know that that's that's a pretty cool feature.

15:30 Mine does not have. I don't. I don't need trend analysis, but that is a good feature definitely that is. Well, I did it a couple of months ago and then we are, we're just finishing off heat maps off it. So technician. The technician does a checklist. At. The time of his visit and he's done all these trend analysis, all these heat maps and stuff. So I, we tried to build it for technicians of all levels. That's what we're trying to do. But it's getting, it's getting to be a bit chunky, a very big chunky system, though.

16:07 There's a there's a lot of functionality on it and I don't, I don't. We've only ever, we've only ever done it from word of mouth. You have, you haven't got a, you haven't got a Facebook page. You people can tag Perceptor. You ain't, you know. Instead, they do. I know. Yeah, it's just we, we are busy anyway and it's something that is. So it's probably going to change in the future. I think it was always something that ran alongside the line. It's it's going to have to change at some point. It is as important now, probably a little bit more important, I would think in terms of what we do.

16:54 But the problem is of course, on that our biggest strength is our biggest weakness. So in order to be able to build what pest controllers need, we have to be pest controllers. There's no, it's no good pretending you're a pest control. I'm building a system that you think the pest control I've needed. My, my humble opinion, I think, I think it has to be built by pest controllers. Then in the same breath, you know, I can't, I can't get the track to comment into this at once for this. This is why I say to people like, and I genuinely don't like, I think people think I pick up the phone if you're around hours and ringers like I don't mind at all.

17:32 It makes life easier for us. Definitely the best way to get a hold of it. If anyone wants to get on what have you, we have automated it So if you want to get on the website and you can put your details in, but that's Gary's done all that. We've got people signing up that way, quite a few signing up that way, That's good. And then we just keep going from there, just keep just keep knocking it out and just keep going and going and colouring. That's fair. I mean, because because the you know, Sam uses it on a laptop.

18:08 It does. He gets out, but he says, oh, it's too much writing. He says my reports for that. But but it is definitely. More professional. Yeah, definitely.

18:23 You know in anyways I'm not going to do a sales job on it because you know, we're doing all right news. I don't need to but yeah, and there's other softwares out there. I don't like anybody else off say that I was an arrow or whatever it is. I think the right customers find the right people in the right way. Yeah. Then if we were into, we were massively into big sites like that, I think we'd have to yours would be more. Yours is superior in pest control, absolutely superior. I love that Bank of words you've got and you can keep adding to and things like that.

19:02 But I don't see what you said about if you've got like BRC sites etcetera. That would be more, more like your kind of software to be honest. That would be jury. As we're starting to push that way more now. Yeah. Simply because we've sort of built a system that works for the business that I had, which was the 1-2 band Rams did, did what you need. And then once you've got that built in, because we have, because I share it with Gary who's the developer like, well, what's the next thing that we can do?

19:38 So we just keep adding the stuff that our customers are using. So you look at what's being used and where they use it, and then we'd like to give them. And then we just have two very basic mindsets to it, as one, doesn't make a pest control or more money. And two, does it make his life easier? So if if something ticks those two boxes, the chances are we're going to build it, you know? But does it make it easier? Yeah. And he doesn't have to do it well because he can tend off a bigger work. He can come pick up his prices up.

20:14 So that's how we do it as that's the two basic questions that we ask ourselves before we build anything we're in the process of looking at building and an offline bit. Oh. That'll be good. It'll take a little while. Like that will be where we are with my control developer. So I've got to look at doing. It's called PWA. Think it is or PWS. Yeah, basically the system that will work offline is the best way to think of it. Have you got an app? Have you got an app as well? Have you got an app for your software?

20:56 So right, so it's called a web-based app. So an app is obviously an application and you can get an app which is on your phone, you get a stuff. So the best way to think of ours is it's like imagine your website, your open pest control website, but imagine it's huge and you can interact, you can change things on it. So it's a web-based application. So it's saved, it's saved on the web the same. Sam said, oh, there's an app. It's web-based, obviously understand that you. Didn't it's that. So what you didn't do is you can put a link direct to it.

21:34 So you get the same, you get the same icon, you get the same, everything like that. You click it, it takes you into it. So it is. It's an app. An app just means an application. So there is an app that's an application. That's fair. So obviously you built past software out and what made you make the good or bad decision, which I think was a good decision to jump into CPD world. So when we built the software, when we were putting our on site builders together. Yeah. What we did was we had a bit that showed training for pest controllers, so you would put your training course in and you would have had it.

22:18 So when the order that looks in, you can click on training and you can see exactly what that pest control has done. OK, In the end, when I knew that when I saw that the CCPD thing was a struggle for a lot of people, I thought, well, we've sort of half got a system built and then through doing all podcasts talk about Alan Buckle on and he was talking about afterwards. I still, I just said, oh, how do you how do you become a crew approved scheme? So a lot of digging and what have you found out how to do it Except except, and I just thought so I said that Gary, like we've kind of got half of this bill already or so I thought, Oh, OK.

23:07 And then we worked out because it's like there's a lot of things you have to do. So we jumped through the hoops and then went them and said, can we be a CPD scheme? And then they just changed all the rules followed in the in my eyes that I've been I've never been like open about it, but I thought they were absolutely horrific. How many? That was horrific.

23:32 Oh yeah, because you're kind of not being nasty like when they say things change, like in an industry. I believe that the British Best register seriously disrupted the UKCPD scheme for pest controllers.

23:47 Disruption and competition is a great thing. It is. There's no need for it either, you know, there's, there's fucking no need for it because in my head, what if they had to give me the original scheme? I was literally just going to offer it to CPD users and it was going to be a small scheme that did what you're supposed to do. And if you're logged on to our software, you could use our own scheme like an Enhancede. Oh, I see. Yeah. But what happened was they made it that difficult one it put me back up and I'm one of them that

24:25 come back again. So then I thought, no, I'm not being pushed around. That's the truth. And then we also build it. So because we have to do so much to get where we wanted to be and because it had taken up so much time and so much effort. And I just thought, you know what it is? Why don't we just offer everyone? Like, why don't we literally just offer everyone? Once we got the crew approval, that was the plan forever. That was a lot of a lot of what has happened, you know, reaction to me feeling like no one taking the piss out, you know?

25:00 OK. No, I'm massively taking the piss out at one point and like laughing at that and then I got the region over it. You got you got served the grill. You got put under the radar massively you did. Well. I could see it through the podcast. You like give it like I'm going through the process and you said, you said bits here and there on the podcast here and there. I thought he's been put through the ring big time. I don't mind telling you, tell you what, tell you in short, what happened was when we went to to apply for the scheme, we've done the same thing that everybody else has done.

25:39 And then they said, oh, no, no, no, you've got to do more. And I was like, well, nobody else has done this, so why? Why do we have to do it? They said, oh, well, you've got to do it basically. So what am I doing? What was happening was as as they were sitting down looking at my application based off their processes with things in that in that as well, what is what doing the application process for me in coming up with extra. So the second system was only produced for the British Pass Register, but then an agreement that both schemes would have to do exactly what we had to do.

26:27 But that didn't. Like I've never kicked off over because I don't care. So by sex, so by movies, do what you want. There's no world that those two schemes have to hit the criteria that we had to hit. And I know that, but that was the agreement. So I can remember early on, I couldn't remember. It was no, I would say if I could remember, but I couldn't. But there's a couple of people anyways who are or Shankland. He's not a cruel approved scheme. He's not a cruel approved scheme. This was in 2020, start of 2025.

27:05 It was because they wanted people for for their own personal gain or their own businesses gain. They wanted. Was not getting around it, you know? I really know. Yeah, but we were literally the only scheme that's had crew approval for 2026 based off the criteria that we were given. So when there was, it weren't crew approved. Nobody was crew approved for 2026 at that time. We were the only ones at one point to accurate approval. I'm guessing the other two schemes without them and yeah, and I know they're going to watch us and kick off, but I've literally got to write an emails.

27:48 I just I can't be bothered with the fight. It's not my sense. You know, he's at all. You know, we're not bothered with the process and I'm comfortable with that. But yeah, that's what we don't engage that because of the way things went. I'm not Speaking of a turn that that's that's the truth. You know, I've got everything on e-mail. I can prove everything I say, but it was, it was a, it was a very, very, very stressful situation that simply didn't need the harm. Did you know the guy who screwed this?

28:18 I'm not doing it. Were you nearly there? Oh, were you not? He was. Like just to be honest with you, yeah, if it had to come to that out, you just told everyone what was going on. Oh, OK. How did you say? Listen, we're dropping out because of this, is what's happened. Here's the proof. I had enough and I think and you already done that, but very difficult. That being said, I do believe in balance and I believe wholeheartedly that there was a number of involved in the decision making processes who had the right had the right intentions at heart, but when like some of the things which appeared proper random notion.

29:04 Yeah, got you hear me now, ain't I? Yeah, it's probably what I came in tell you that tell you the thing that really lit the fire underneath us, which can probably pissed us off because when I submitted me scheming the first thing, put it into a crew and I said, listen, I'm literally giving you everything that we're doing at this point. I don't want to give in to me direct competitors. Yeah.

29:34 And then they had their meeting and I asked them who was in the meeting and they said our basis and the BPCA like the agreement was that it wouldn't be in the while they were on the board. That's like, well, it's done now and you have to get 100% approval from everyone on the scheme. 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they had the right, they had the right to veto it. And then I was like, this is a joke. This is like you look at whether they were, they weren't the optic from our side was that they were looking after their friends in this situation.

30:14 And then I got proper testing at one point, a great test. It was horribly tested and it's all calmed down now. It's fair to say that there's no, there's no working relationship between us and them as a result of it. Like not even close, which is a shame because it didn't mean to be definitely didn't. But you know, I think just saw me as a, as a family in the ointment and a pain in the back, but not really a real consideration of someone that could bully up, push around. I don't know where it came from and it wasn't all, but certainly some of them.

30:51 So then I just put me back up and thought I'm not out, you know, Well, that's my personal, you know, once you've then I'm going to, I'm going to start defending myself. And that's how we saw it. And the other problem was shown that when you with you, you have to stand up not just for you, but for them. You know, like you stand there thinking he's built this system. It's taken them however long and I'm just going to stand back and go, that's fine. Scrap all that hard work you've done because these people don't want you to play like like I'm not I'm not going to do it.

31:30 So yeah, I've had a bit of a fight with a RIP, but we got there in the end and sort of talk now they they send us an e-mail every now and again. For once, some of the don't have a ringers speak to us and kind of suits us down the ground really, which it's a shame because you. Know right. Well, it is, it is. It's but I will say one thing when it comes to accuracy of schemes and what CPD you get, yours is the strictest obviously, because you know, I'm doing the Davey Brown course. The other schemes I like not say names, but one of them is 12 and one of them is 13 and yours is 6 because it's for every, every hour.

32:10 So you've got six. It is. So if you actually Google it tonight, if you Google DD, it's pretty much agreed across all industries that do it get one point per hour. Yeah. Because what the the problem that you will find with you had the question finally. Yeah. How do you get up? How did it work out how many points you get per key per cost? I always thought with with the likes of Basis it was based on health and safety and everything. No, I'm like if I said to you, the formula for pass register right is one point per hour.

32:51 Yeah, what's the? Formula by getting to 12 points. I actually couldn't tell you what that is. No. And I. Think I think and I might be wrong on this. My my the reasoning for it being accepted that it's one point per hour is because if. If it's not, then what you can find is that certain providers can be could be given preferential treatment. Yeah, I don't think that's fair. I think it should be fair across the board for everybody. Then fucking else if you can't get 20 points. I'll be, I'll be honest by I'd say by March I'll be well above 20.

33:32 I'm already, I'm already at 11 1/2. You know, we're in January, people. Everyone said it's hard, you know. Yes, I'll tell you the one thing I would do. I think a lot of people do CPD and don't know they do it and don't claim for it. They do I I think they don't realise because obviously if you are with the British pass Register, any learning you do you can note down well in other sorry in in basis. Everyone knows it's dictating what you do. 6 points podcasts and that's maximum that is and it's set for so many different things.

34:13 But with self register schemes like British Pass Register, you can learn how you want. Apart from yeah, regulated crew points each year, you can learn how you want. So I do, I do understand why there is a thought process that they should split it up and make you do different things because then you get, some people would say you get a wider broadcast of learning. But I think there's the age. What we know is that different people learn different ways. But then I was a feasible learner.

34:46 Some people like to sit down and read like if you've got in my mind, I think if you put a specific number on, if you say to someone listen, you can get 6 points for podcast. I think it has a negative effect on learning because I think what happens is people get the six points and don't need to do that anyway. Well, yeah, they can. What's the point? So now I'm going to read 2 magazines. I'm only going to read 2 magazines. So what's the point? So I just think if you, you know, I think if you let people learn the way they want to learn, then they'll continue to learn.

35:25 They just need to understand what learning is. And it's that we struggle a past register because people ring me. If you've not done this, if you've not done that, we'll say, yeah, yeah. Like that's learning, you know, that is learning. That counts. Put it on. Put it on like, all right, you know? Exactly. Obviously I put down. I do, if we're doing your courses, kill germ days, MPTA days, pest tech. I do obviously register your podcast. I do not register my own. I'm not that sad and I I registered Pest magazine.

36:04 I haven't registered any this year yet by Ruby, Pest Magazines and things like that. It's all any kind of reading you can do or learn and it's all learning. It is. So like, I don't know, I'll say you ring someone up for advice. You know, I'm still like, I've never used a doc trap. I've never fucking. I don't know. I've got a job where I might be thinking about using phos toxin, pallionex phos, you know, some I had. I've got a customer who's asking about this. I've got this or that. And you know someone who does it.

36:38 You pick it up and you speak to them for an hour about, you know, gasping rabbits in the railway line, or you're speaking about trapping rats on the agricultural side or how resistant these mice or whatever it is. Then as long as you put down who you've spoke to him about it, what you've spoke about and what you've learned. And that comes as learning, you know, it's still learning. It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be a case of, Oh yeah, that that doesn't count. You know it should count. Yeah, I did not think of.

37:08 I did not know that. So there's more texts for the British pass register or self register. Yeah, I didn't think about that. But how many times do you do you might go on a social, you know that social media course that that stuff that you do at Rutland where people like when you say, listen, I'm learning all the time about business. So it's making your business better. So they keep employing people and it all counts. It all helps. That's. My, I did, I did actually sales forecasting course, I actually put it down because it was 6 hours.

37:40 It was, well, I tell you what, Sean, well out my, I know I'm all confident with round pest control people, but I was put with all the business people having to mix in groups and speak to them and everything. That was well out of my comfort zone. But I did it. I did, getting to know new people and stuff it was. Yeah, that that's how you learn, isn't it? Exactly. The best things come when you get put in them, uncomfortable situations. I think it's just whether you're brave enough to do them isn't.

38:07 It exactly, exactly, yeah, put 6 down for that because it was like out with the hours it was 6. But yeah, it's that's some new but that's some good advice there. And obviously there's always that me metre a Rep talk. Sometimes I wouldn't put that down because it's not always that's control related. I wouldn't say I learned a lot, sometimes I wouldn't, but depends if you talk. And I think I think the other problem would stipulate what people have to do is someone who's a visual learner and he does 20 hours of visual learning.

38:52 He can learn 20 hours worth of stuff. The same look, you could sit him in a classroom for four hours and he would just cheat out and he might have been there for four hours and he might get a tick in the box, but it might be absolutely no good. And then you turn you start to turn people off from learning, you know, you have a negative effect. I believe that a negative effect on them. I think people should be allowed to learn, you know, especially in today's day and age when we know that everyone's different.

39:20 We're not not in school anymore.

39:24 Yeah. We're not having a handheld by teachers telling us to read this book or read that book for us to push our business. And, you know, I think it's really important that people get that opportunity to do what suits them in their business, how they want to do it. That's my thoughts. No, no, I definitely, I definitely agree with you. I was just surprised after all of the others registers are now S register, the basis didn't move forward with S register. It surprised me. I thought the upgrade S register was coming.

39:55 No, it didn't happen. It didn't. It's. Probably, to be fair, the South register thing as well. It's probably a big build. I don't know how the app works. I don't know whether that happened with that. I don't. I don't get involved in any issue. I've got ACPD organised account but I've still yet to try and actually do it. I have. I don't. I literally I couldn't give you any. Advice. No. No. I think the app is the important thing, isn't it? That's what people want now, isn't? It it's meant to be AQR code.

40:26 When you go to a day and you scan your QR code, apparently I don't know that's what they. That that would pro, to be fair, that would probably be something that we're building. Yeah, I think that will probably be something that we build into our system where people can turn up your QR code, they'll scan it and it'll give them, it will be verified there. And they're not all the the provider can decide whether it's verified or what have you. The verification is the heartbeat. Yeah, yeah. Just just keep going in US.

41:00 Oh yeah, definitely. It's it's all good. It's. Why are you going to take organ pest control on what you want to do with it?

41:11 I've obviously got, you know, I want to grow a little bit, but like we are actually looking at buying a drain camera as such. But it's very it's very budget end compared to the one you've got It's and that's what I've got the grant for. It's obviously A2 grand Grant and it's nowhere near what yours costs. It ain't good. The entry into it's an entry into learning it It's we've got.

41:45 To start somewhere around here, so you just got to. Start Oh yeah just but yeah just just start having to play with it and then drained and see what I can learn on obviously do Davies course but understand that I'm not going to be an expert overnight. I know that I'm going to struggle like probably struggle like you did and. I would, I would definitely say if you're going to do Davies course and you're going to get a drain camera, you would, I would for my lads, I expect them all to be certified drain surveyors.

42:20 Yeah, I think once you've done it, everyone, everyone who said to me like really, whatever. Like I would do it when they went and done the the certified drain surveying course and come back and they're like, yeah, it's not like that really. Bolt on a lot of meat to the bones that you're going to get. David's going to give you the basics on using the drainage system. They're going to give you the basics on the drainage system. OK. How much is that then that do you know or I think? It was a 2 day course.

42:51 What's that?

42:55 Any of DC will have a look now for anyone I think I've. I think, I think I've actually looked at that website. I may have looked at it. I can't remember. I've looked at a lot of stuff recently. I was trying to remember it all. But yeah, it's obviously, I know it's not anywhere. The camera we're getting is nowhere near your league, but it's it's a start. It is. What's it look like? Certified drains This course does Anchorage show that drainage 495 LB. It is. OK, Yeah. That's the one we sent our lads off to Scotland.

43:31 Our last two, I did one in in Brad, I think it was with Centerina. We went down there, but I sent my next two lads up to Glasgow to do the one with Martin just because it was available. But when they came back they really, really, they really enjoyed it and really enjoyed him as a person. He was really good. That's good. Done that is. So are all your lads qualified? Qualified in that, that work for you, are they Are all your lads that work for you all qualified in drains in doing it? Yeah. OK. So they all can do the drains, Yeah.

44:10 So yes and no. So they're all, they've all got the ticket, but so, well, I'd say all of them. There's two of them. There's me, Alison, Dale. We're all certified train surveyors, do a lot with drains, never has done a lot with drains, pick it up if needed to, has that, has that ability. Alice is the one who does all of our drain stuff, and Dale and Dale's got a couple of Harris Hawks. I've heard, yeah, it sounds like a, it sounds like a really nice lab, He does. He's class. He's absolutely class.

44:45 Both of them are. Both of them are, But yeah, just two really, really good guys. Deals girls. Like, oh, friendly giant. He's a proper nice man. And he's a big old, you know, like real, real, caring, genuinely concerned guy. A lovely man. Alice is more raw. You know, Alice is more of a killer, I would think in terms of the way he approaches stuff, deals a lot more methodical apple and process driven. Alice is a lot more let's get to the salt, get to the source of this and smash it. You know, like he's so there's different people like different places.

45:31 But yeah, he's a good kid and they can both they are both right to drain. You know if the human drain severe's course right immediately be able to see who has done the drinks of his course and who hasn't. Just so the way to talk. And yeah. Yeah, yeah, because, you know, it's the best way to describe it is to see people doing videos about stuff and they use the wrong words. That's you. Yeah. It's. Not a serial. Yeah, it's not a they use the wrong nomenclature, the wrong wording for things and it shows.

46:15 Whereas if someone's the grain surveyors course, they know the right things to say, they know the. And I just think when you've got the drainage industry who like it or not, I'm going to stop paying more and more attention to what? They are, yeah. They're standing there using the wrong words for stuff. Imagine if the Imagine if the drainage industry started doing pest control and started calling wasp toilets, you know, not trained in the top and they start talking about like rat, rat poison rat be like and they're using the wrong words for it.

46:57 You know, they're talking instead of it just shines through who's actually done some training and those who have done it conceived 1,000,000 miles. Off how I did, how I did do when he was it. Was it Darren you had on your podcast Darren the Drain? I. Actually, I actually went and bought that book. He talks about something about the drain coding. I thought. I thought that book. MSC 5. That might be it came with loads of different colour leaflets in it pages as well. Exactly, exactly. So that you've got to learn that about not learning, but it's very helpful if you learn that before you do your course.

47:38 Because at the end of it do is they'll give you a series of pictures. You have to record the bolts in the pictures and you have an understanding of what bolts need fixing and why they need fixing and where they fixed and where they shouldn't be fixed. You know, even lots of people doing drain surveys, like they say, no, look, that joint's displaced and that and that rack.

48:07 And they do drain surveys. Are they advertising it as a CCTV inspection? Right. We didn't ingress because because there's a lot of companies that do them where they just have, they don't call it a survey, they just call it having a look to see if there's any issues. They don't call it full drain survey. Yeah, that's the issue. Have you tried? This is just my thoughts on it. So I don't agree, OK. And I don't know people watching this part your property, right? And they've said they've looked in your dreams and they can't find anything wrong or they've, you know, they've missed something, but they're not quite shallow.

48:52 They're looking at whatever it is. For example, there's a, there's an old triangle under your address. You don't know what we're looking at because that like if you don't. Know what you look that will happen then. All of a sudden you get backed up, there's a blockage because rats often cause blockages like through digging and dragging stuff around Cause. And then the next thing is that that human shit in the water that gets blocked behind all of a sudden is in the base of your house. Yeah, and you've got someone who said, listen, I've inspected your drains and I think they're all right.

49:26 We're not causing the bother. Like where do you, where do you start? I would. I, I, I should, if you were to word it rodent ingress. So I'm not looking for any blockages or anything. So, but that, that's what they're looking for, you know, knocks in the pipes and stuff. That's what that's what a lot of them are doing. Then it explicitly says this is not a full drain survey at all. This is a inspection. A lot of firms do it. They do. I'm not saying it always works, I'm just saying that I've done research etcetera and a lot of them do that.

50:04 I would suggest playing devil's advocate, but the reason they're doing that is because they're not capable of doing a proper survey. OK, Yeah. Because why would you do half a job? Why? I don't understand why you would do. If you're going to do your drinks or else coffee. I'll almost guarantee you that once you've done it, you think, well, why would I do like half the job? Do you know what I mean? It's like, you know, yeah, I'm not. I'm just going to come out and have a look to see if you've got Wasps and I'll charge you to see if.

50:35 You've got. Yeah, yeah. And then getting out there and the the dead high up and you go, well it might be worse, might be it's not quite sure. Here's £50, here's £100 because under the quid or whatever it is for me, survey for me time and then I'm off. You'd be like, well why didn't you just got a professional? Somebody knew what he was doing, somebody knew what he was looking at.

50:58 Yeah, I'll tell you, it's got a lot of thought because obviously you mentioned that once in the drain with the camera you said you'll mention you'll see gullies and stuff and you won't you won't know what it is a lot of the time. Now imagine that everything in the drains are discoloured and they. So it broke because it should I'll. Tell you what it is, Sean, what you like an interceptor trap, right? The first time you come up to an interceptor trap from the downstream, you'll be like, I had one the other day and I didn't know what that until until we did until we popped into the manhole and everything there's been like so for instance, Bassett, you do you know what a drop cap is?

51:43 You'd probably be like, no, we don't I. Do not know. No, I don't. So this is what this is what we said about drains. Most course teachers, yeah, a drain should be between 1 and 40 and one in 80. If it's too shallow, obviously this doesn't flow. If it's too steep, then what happens is the water runs faster than the solids and leads that leads the solids behind. I can do so if you've got somewhere, that is if you've got a manhole, if you've got a line which is right under the surface and it's got to get down the bottom of a deep manhole.

52:23 What we'll do is run along, we'll drop a line 90° down into the base of the manhole. Come along in the drop. But if that blocks, you can't get it would be almost impossible to carry. So they extend the line out into the manhole. So the manhole has the entrances of the same line, if that makes sense. One at the time, one at the bottom. OK, now as you come to survey that as you come along and you've got like a line going straight down and one popping straight out, you haven't got a Scooby. Not a Scooby.

53:00 What's going on until, until you've done your course and you know what, a drop track this or you know what this is? You know what that is? You should definitely, I would strongly suggest that people should do it because it just opened things up. You know, it'll, it'll start to show you what is what and what you're looking at. And then you'll have half an idea when it starts to gain things because it's embattling. It happened with Sean from first time pushing Conrad, the customer. He stood me and he goes, what's on?

53:27 You got down. Oh yeah, I've got a fucking clue. I've got a clue. I'm not telling you that way. We're always great. We started, but you've got like once we've done it, all of a sudden you're like, oh, it's this is that you've included, you know? Yeah, what is that? You look at anything I've done on. It's like actually it's just that's just roots. Like do you know what roots in the drains look like or will you be pushing the wrong thing? And then all that fucking is like that is like I've. Heard, I've seen, I've obviously been watching some YouTube videos and seen some of what roots look like.

54:01 But yeah, I'm actually everything looks different once it's in the drain system because you know, basically going to be dirty into it. It's not new, is it? It's not. Exactly. That, you know, I was. I was told to get used to the smells of pissing shit. I was as well. Yeah, and the other one which caught us out when we first started as well. Yeah, we're down with the length of pipe and I have a load of loops in the bottom of the big loops and all, you know, big boring one to the other after the other.

54:36 I don't know what that was, but it's just a pitch fibre pipe layered. And in the old days before they had, before they, when they first started putting pitch fibre and they just put it on bricks. Our tyres have soaked down and then the bricks well while loping and it so you're like, but if you don't, if you haven't done that sort of stuff, we're always going to struggle to understand what's what's going on. So I think it is important that that we do it. You know why, why do we not show the same expected level of professionalism to the drains that we expect the farmer on the window cleaner on the landscape garden show the pest control.

55:23 You know, we want to do their training. Don't want them to understand what we want them to take it seriously when it comes. It's like, let's just buy a camera. We can do it. The mentality that we cry about as an industry when other industry win and go, well, it's just past control. We can put some poison down. And I feel like it's, I feel like it's too fierce to us to do that.

55:49 Yeah, I totally understand that. I don't know. It's Yeah. So you made me think you've never been a. Pest controller, right? You've never been a pest controller. Your dad wasn't a pest controller and you had rats in the house and the pest control lasses. I think it's coming from the drains and you get the camera out. Would you expect them to know what he's looking at in the drains? Well, you, yeah, you would. There you go then. You would, You're right. You would. You would expect it. You would. Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

56:26 It's made me think. I'm learning on this podcast. I am. I'm learning. Hey. Listen, you do you, you know you do. You might, you might go push in a bit and you might think this is not for me. You know, I don't like and human shit don't like it. And you might also do and think this is right on my street and I want to start advising it. I'm going to go and do this. I'm going to go and do that.

56:55 You don't know until you don't know until you're basically strike. But you can't just hire a camera, couldn't you? You're going to buy it, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll, you'll get there. You'll get there and you'll be like, like all my words, you know, all my words. Because when you get there, it's like 20 foot deep and you're like, oh fuck, oh, fuck. Like, yeah, like how we're going to do that. There'll there'll be all sorts of stuff where you're looking at me like, yeah, it's not, it's a whole new trade.

57:27 There's no getting around it. The whole, it's not a little bold on that. You can do a little bit too. It's a whole new trade. Do you do that? Do you do that resins? Do you do that patch line or do you do that? I've seen that on videos on that. I have. I have. Yeah, do do do quite a few of them, do quite a few curtain place liners and I like patch liners, patch repairs. What we've got then, we've got three to put in this week, 3 in last week. It's not, it's not a cheap, it's not a cheap thing for, you know, obviously when you charge your customer, it's not a cheap price, is it?

58:06 It's quite a, if you're doing the whole line. I've looked, I've looked into it. So there's two different things. There's patches in line. Patches are basically, you've got small, I say small, 1 metre, it's usually a metre, but you can get them up to two metres if you want to like pack that, you'll put it around and you push it in place. It's basically a walk which goes around it almost like a like a one of a better word, like a tortilla. Blow it in place and it sets. So that's a patch. And. Probably, I would think considered relatively easy when you're talking about liners that will blow a whole line.

58:48 That's a that's a trade with itself. That's something what you can relapse to be doing it all the time. You know, that's not that is not the same thing Like they have they have machines which basically wet it up and they'll blow it in and it just runs through the lines and do the whole lot. That's that's all that like that's not what we would do. We would do. I do like spot repairs if that makes sense. Yeah. OK, drainage systems. You don't. You don't do the one where it goes down the whole line, you just do the patch ones.

59:24 Definitely do not do that. The last one, I think, I think there are a lot more speculars in that area and is doing that. You know they'll be, they'll know what they're doing and they'll know when they can run it, when they can't, all that sort of jazz. Because you've got to remember if it goes wrong, you've got to cut or dig it out. You have. Yeah, you are right there. You are right. You would, I think, I think you would definitely need a mentor on someone like that to show you how to do it. When do it before you?

59:56 You just on your own life or you have to do an awful lot of testimony. Jack Jones, I think. Yeah, well, the yeah. Have you ever I've been looking online, you've got to a company called Real Tech, Real Tech Retech. They they do a course on it. You go down and they do a certified course on it. But I'm just just me Googling stuff. It is. We did our patch course to Retech. Yeah, that's why I've done it,

1:00:27 yeah. You're looking at a A1 day course and you're only going to start then and you start putting them in. We've had, some have. You I've been told though, you've got to make sure that it's precise. Or is it can go wrong? Sean, I'm very nearly walking Northumbrian water asset to the liner. I'm telling you now, if you speak to Alice Odell say what happened, what happened at that job where you ended up in Northumbria waters like that was a that was a fucking major stress That was to the we were about 5 millimetre this side because I won't bore you in the store basically when again, but had some but had sort of jam.

1:01:15 So we pulled it off. We put it on. I looked at the wrong lock on a rod, pushed it in a little bit too far inflated. I thought everything was right and then realised that I'd pushed a little bit too far, which sounds probably like silly unprofessional. It was all of those things that survived teeth and another one where we used to ask Daily Brown about this. I used a patch repair kit so ray tech producer patch repair kit and saw the and I bought some pink Doctor doctor wants to give them a try. Thought all the same word.

1:01:55 Put one in on a cold winter's day. 8 hours waiting for the set. Oh damn, yeah. I was literally sitting in the dark waiting for the set.

1:02:15 No. It did eventually, but literally I've had the same one. Well, that's nothing. And I just sat on site waiting with it, tapping this stuff, crossing the thing that it would, that it would get better. That was, that was. I ran this learning that growing experience. Yeah, Yeah, that was so, yeah. Thanks for coming on, Sean. I think, I think we've that that was a nice chat. That was no, no, honestly, it was good. We can carry on if you want. I don't want to take up the whole night.

1:02:55 A lot of, well, a lot of people that I think it were useful. Just I think I might have to go back and listen to some of the stuff you said to take it in more. Oh well. But there we go. There you go people 2-3 O1. If you want a code, the Mooney hasn't done it for two. Mr Mooney hasn't done it for two weeks now. So for this you got so for this to it. I know I'm just I've got that much to do and I am the one the things I'm good at. I'm so all right, the things I'm bad, I'm terrible at right now. Codes and doing that being planned in practise, not my thing like and I was just I could say I was going to make an awesome before I'd started like you're quite you're quite a regiment of dialect.

1:03:38 Yeah, I mean, I actually made a video about showing people how, because I've made it, you've obviously noticed the CPD training errors absolutely bombarded with my podcasts. So I did it so people couldn't. I was getting fed up with having to approve podcasts where I didn't know if they actually listened to it. So some of the questions people, you might notice that they're not all like learning ones. They're like, was she, was she listening? There were little questions where in their view, so I could, I could see whether they're actually listening.

1:04:11 So we did that. But also in the video also showed people how to do self register because a few people have asked me, I even though there's a video in the British press register telling him to do it. I added it in, I added it at the end and I said this is how you self register if you if you want to do it as well. Just meaning I can't add Instagram log in there, it's going to say, yeah, of course you can, of course. You can, I don't know if. I can there's been a guest I. Can Oh, I No, no, I don't know if you can actually.

1:04:53 Oh. Hang on, no, I can't yet see that. You can. I'll approve it once it comes through. There we go, people. Yeah. So I'm going to log in. Here's a guide here as well, people, how to do that. Yeah, yeah. The master account. This is the master account of the British Press Register. No, no, this is just my account, isn't it? So I've got a log point. Yeah.

1:05:28 Put put Wi-Fi in the office and it's slow so add new CPD log user pick me. So it's going to be Pest Morgan Pest Control, Where am I? No, do not do that anymore. Do not. People do not use that. I've actually told people not to use that, which I have.

1:05:53 No. No, you're going to CPD training. It's in that. Section that's terrible thing. Definitely do not do that. We go to CPD training. Yeah, that's it in there. Yeah. You search it, so we're going to go. To no we're not under we're not we're not under that anymore got past perspective account now because of you which is which easier you obviously oaken pest control everywhere you don't there was there whereabouts

1:06:26 you're literally been I've buried you you've been buried you are there somewhere you know I'll tell you what will. Work. I'm going to. I'll take that off for a minute. That code, where's the code off?

1:06:47 It's beauties and beasties. It's not, is it? Or do you put it in as beauties and beasties, not as me? Yeah, you. You've put it in as beauties and beasties. I watch tonight's show. It's not in there yet. No, it's not in there yet. I haven't done it. You've already. Put a code. Yeah, I've given a code. I do it straight after the podcast. Oh, right, right. I get you. Oh, I can't do it. That's going to do this one and do the 2 three O 1. But obviously I can't find it because the course is none there.

1:07:16 So but it's what it is. But all you would do is find that, take the test, put 2 three O 1 and you would have passed it. You'd have got you your hours, but. I'll all right and go go to last week's show, then all. Right, OK, let's let's have a look. Yeah, yeah. And trainer. No, no, no. Best Perspectives? All.

1:07:42 Right. So you just go right through there to #49 it's on that page above Farrier, above Farrier, just above Farrier. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. I'm both far here just a bit, yeah. And then there'll be a question. I didn't watch last week's channel. I kind of like you. I think it's. I think it was the bottom answer. Well, I'll tell you what, I'm going to take another one, right? I'm going to take another one. And if I I think the answer look did not. There you go. Let's see.

1:08:23 And it's automatically registered people. You don't have to ask me to approve it. I'll tell you who loads of people have been doing them, them CPD training courses because it tells you who's been doing them. Absolutely C FM, C FM people, you might have been doing 10s of them. They are free yes city FM technicians and some nurture ones and also the companies have never heard of as well do. You know, this is This is why I like it because rather than just give out quiz, whether it came to points for it, the provider gets to see who was actually.

1:09:04 And then you can tailor what you're doing in the audience. You can start understanding that it would be. I would love to get someone from Sydney on ours for the proving. Well, they're probably just busy guys on this. Or they. Are. Yeah, they are. Yeah, there was. I remember when Nurture first came on board, I was like off the scene. I was like, Graham, you still. Well, what have you seen us as well? I obviously approved podcasts and one of his technicians had applied for CPD. I was like, you're with another association.

1:09:41 Well, he's he's laughing. I can't say anything, he says. At the time, he said I could see it, so I didn't beat up on the podcast, but eventually it was announced it was I've. Got I've got some other like well, it's all the largest companies looking at looking at it, which is quite nice. Yeah, see, I'll be honest though, if you've got like a big company or even like 3-4 Five guys and they don't want to do it, you can have a CPD manager and they can literally just log the CPD. They've done all the technician can do it themselves.

1:10:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The thing is, what we tried to do was we tried to create a system where there was no excuse. Yeah. Turn off pussy. Look at that. My camera does that as well. My camera does it. Hey are you back now?

1:10:37 I've got a 4K camera but my package on stream yard only does up to 1080P. It does. You've got to pay for the higher package to get full 4K. You've probably got 4K. You have, you won't. Have you won't have we'll just have to In fact, 1080 sounds familiar. I don't, I don't get involved in that side of. It that's what that's basically what HD is what the first HDHD is right. But yeah, but loads of companies are registering CPD. But at least I don't have to press approve now because there was a poem where I said to you, I'm a bit dubious.

1:11:13 This person's just dropped tonnes of them and I says I can't, there's no way of really approving it. And this just fixed it to a degree. To a degree. Anyway, I'll be speaking to you if you need us a game mate, if you want to. If you if you get that down, feel free, I don't mind. Yeah, no, no worries. I I think I'll be all right for now, but you never know, do you? But cheers for that, Sean. No. But hang on, God bless all. Right. And thanks mate. Thanks. Cheers. Bye and stream. Thanks everyone.