Does the episode discuss whether hygiene causes bed bug infestations?

Yes. The notes state that hygiene has nothing to do with bed bug infestations.

What treatment approaches are discussed?

Heat, chemical, and combined approaches are discussed.

What human impacts of bed bugs are covered?

Anxiety, embarrassment, sleep loss, and emotional strain.

Does the episode cover DIY treatments?

Yes. It discusses the risks of DIY and poorly planned treatments.

Bed Bug Control: Inspections & Treatments

Hello and welcome to press perspectives episode 51. Crazy believe that my episode 51 started last January, but then now today we have on the bed book queen from bed book Queen unlimited. So there'll be a lot of bedbug chatter on all all things bedbugs as it's an area she specialises in as a company. So how are you, Sarah? All good. Glad to be here. Thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward to some gritty questions here. I want to get some things cleared up today. Yeah, there's a there's a lot, there's a lot on bed bugs and I was reading even an article recently from it was in BBC as latest mag.

It was Doctor Richard Naylor who's been on the podcast, yes. And he was saying. I'm going to go down and do one of his courses. Yeah, very. Nice. Yeah. Very nice welcome Jason in chat from AS Pest Control. Cheers for dropping in. Yeah, I was reading an article. He's very clever bloke he is. I'm not going to try and repeat what the article said because I will butcher it. I will, so it's worth a read anyway. It's online as well. You don't have to ask a magazine. So how did you get into the wonderful world of control?

Let's start there first. So it was purely by accident. I lost my job, but I didn't lose it. But the job ended and I didn't know what I was going to do. Did what any logical person would do. Went on holiday and someone said to somebody that I knew had mutual connections. I'm looking for a technician. Reckon you've got the right mentality for it. And I thought bed bugs. What? Yeah, all right, I'll do it. And I genuinely thought it would be like a six month filler job till I found a real job. And I loved it.

I, I hate, I'm a spider phobic. I absolutely hate them. Cockroaches don't even bring me into the room. I'm not doing it. But for some reason, bedbugs really got me and I loved it. I did it for six years, left that company, thought that was it. Thought I'd leave that behind, go on something else. Had a job for the last three years doing other stuff, but I kept my little bedbug group going. And the one on Facebook, Bedbugs, facts and evidence. And over the last year, year and a half, the stories that are coming in, the same stories I've been treated.

Let's see what you found. You don't have bedbugs. That pays me off beyond belief. Yeah. People that sold a treatment because you got bites, they must be bed bug bites. They're really hard to find. We'll sell you 1000 LB treatment here, you know. Yeah, it's, I've just got to say shout out. Thanks for popping in, Lewis. Thanks for popping in on Facebook. Is that Louis Sorkin? That's. It There we go. There you go, honest. There you go. You're famous. Entomologist of repute. Oh wow, some celebrities in the house.

Yeah. So yeah, these horror stories that started coming in, bad treatment practise, you know, stories of people being treated but they're in the room with the technician while they're spraying. Oh, no, no, in England. In England I smear to you and just failure after failure people. It's not that the treatments they're being given are necessarily poor, but the customers not being informed in a in a really plain and simple way. So you know my 3 golden rules, I bang on about them all the time. Don't use any over the counter sprays or Fogger bombs.

Don't move anything out of infested rooms unless it's thoroughly sealed and don't abandoned infested rooms. Those three things alone would make every pest controllers job 10 times easier if everybody could just follow those three things. And it's such a simple it. They're such simple things, you know. Just going to say a shout out to my good friend who is also in the your bed book group but I feel the need to give him a massive shout out to remove a pest. Leo, well done, you see more episodes in and you finally made it live.

Yes, mate, in the building. Nice. He's a good laugh, yes. So yeah. And do you know what you don't want to pay off? A middle-aged menopausal woman. And my rage just grew and grew and grew. And in the end I just decided, sorry, I'm going, I'm going to do it myself. And with nothing, from nothing, no business knowledge, literally, I've been a mum, a Gran and I've had a couple of jobs in my life. That's it. And I've thrown myself at it. And we're not quite there yet. We're not quite profitable yet, but we're getting there, we're running, we're up and running, we're getting successes.

And I, I just want to get the message out there. If we can get those simple messages out there to people, then it's going to help all of us. Oh, no, I definitely agree because obviously and you're not alone there when you say I don't know anything about business, the vast majority, I'm not saying everyone, but when they start up a pest control business, a lot of people do not really understand the business side of it. They've got the job, the career, but actual business acumen etcetera. It's not a thing that we even sales, it's not a thing they generally teach you unless you work for a big national that's different.

But the business side you'd never learn. But it's a learning curve for everyone. It is. It's steep. It's, I don't think I've slept through the night since I started it, but it's, it's all right, it's OK. I've just, I've learnt to farm out what I can't handle. So I have an accountant. I have nothing to do. With that, there you. Go. Do you have an account? We haven't of receipts and I'll speak to you in three months. Thank you very much. We kind of, we obviously know what we're doing in that front, but we do have an accountant just to double check everything's fine.

But as you know, if you make a mistake, it's not their fault, It's your fault of course. As always, thank you, Andy Proper for popping in. I reckon some of your Facebook groups coming into this, I reckon. Well, we see. I mean, we did put plenty of promotion out there. You're right, you are the more. People we can get the better. Oh yeah, exactly. So obviously you started this journey. How did you go about when you were first starting? Did you go limited? Did you go limited straight away? I did, and mostly because it just seemed to flow nicely with the bedbug queen.

And. It just felt nice and I thought if I'm going to do it, just do it. Throw everything at it. It will work. I know it will work. The demand is there. Pest controllers are happy to work with me. I'm happy to work with them. Like the work is there. This will be a success. It's just that beginning part. I mean, I'm not even a year in yet, I think. I think I incorporated in June. So, OK, still very new to it. Yeah, very new. Very new. Another person, Gary McKay, thanks for dropping in.

But now that so how did you go about your first? When did you get your first job? And were you were you daunted by it because it's under your own, your own brand? Did you get the website going first before you tried to get any? I did a few bits and pieces. I got the website up and sort of like on Google and then started doing a little bit of tweaking. Well, I didn't. I paid a very nice knowledgeable person to tweak it for me and all that and just started working on things like branding, which is something I've never even given any consideration to, and getting signage, signage for the car, those sorts of things.

Just getting all those things in place. So first, yeah, yeah. And. Our people don't think about branding properly, and you have, but a lot of people don't think about it properly. So a lot do, but some don't. It's NAFTA fault. It is. Yeah, I reached out the the local council has a little small business, you know, start up thing with courses and stuff like that. I'm in one of them now. Not staying. It progresses through. But yeah, I got a grant through that as well recently, but. Yeah. The. Plan was to get a, you know, do the business, start up loans from the government.

But it it was just such a complicated process. I just thought, OK, don't go big, go small. Print what you can yourself. Write what you can yourself.

It's kind of what you call kind of a bootstrap. You do what you can yourself, you do because obviously I imagine what the the business loans you were talking about, you'd have to have a sales forecast, a whole business plan you'd have to have. And most people don't know how to do any of that. I'm learning that stuff now, even though we're an established business. Some of that stuff I'm starting to learn now. I am, but it's things people don't know how to do. It is Chris sales. Thanks for popping in.

And and he said good on you, Sarah. Oh. Thank you very much. I don't know which bit, but we'll take it. Yeah, but no, that's, yeah, you are right. To be fair, that website for stuff like that, you are best to get someone else to build it and at least you're a limited company now, because if you do use Google guarantee, which I don't know a lot of a lot of people do or the rules of now flip to script. Now if you're a sole trader, you're no longer allowed to use it. You have to be a limited company.

They're throwing them all off. It and you. And you can't. Well, yeah, but it's not for the sole traders. But I think it's got to do with all this. You know, you must verify your identity with company's house and everything. I think it's got so much to do with that. I don't know. Well. There's been the Google verified you have to take a video and walk down the street and show them the road sign and it was insane. Yeah, we never have to do that because we started Google Guarantee when it first started.

So they never used, they never used to ask you for all that. We've already verified. But yeah, I understand it is a bit of a nightmare setting it up, but it's very, it's the cheapest way of getting business because it's not per click, it's per call. So if I decide not to ring, you don't get charged? Yeah, mind you, I've had some funny calls. 9:00 at night, the phone rang and this lady said. I wonder if you can help me? I have a bat in my living room. And you said I can't touch that, obviously, you know.

I'm awfully sorry, that is not my area of expertise. I recommend you call the back conservation people. Yeah, we had it once where a bloke kept ringing us on. We had, we've got different area numbers as well sometimes and but can't you just, can't you just come and remove it? I said no, I'm no gave any advice like you did, gave up in the end. I'll say it's not a job for pest control. That is not two years ago he gave up. In the end, he flew into his bathroom. You see it did I? Mean awkward, I mean nothing in towel wouldn't.

Well, no, I'm not going to say that, never mind. Oh. Yeah, let's not. Let's not say that. Let's not do that. But but no. So when you got your was your first job? Through. Google guaranteed it was. No, no, no, no. I think the first job, I think that was before I did the Google. So I'd done a couple of inspections just to sort of get my eye in and they sort of came through local groups, local, you know, like next door and that kind of thing. And people just posting like, oh, I've got these bites and blah, blah, blah.

And does anybody know a good pest control? And I got in quick and just said I can do an inspection. I'm not selling you a treatment because I'm not set up and running yet, but I can come and take a look. So I think the first couple came that way. Neither of them had bedbugs. OK, so. Did they, were they OK with you saying that? Because there's a lot of the time there will, I hate to say, I've had it a few times where you do the inspection, you can't find anything and legally you're not allowed to do anything.

I know, I know many companies out there will. There's many, unfortunately, and when you tell them you've got no bed bugs and they prevent you with a envelope full of bits of skin, etcetera, yeah, I just say fortunately, yeah. You've got to be careful. We're not trained for this, are we? It's a learning skill. You've got to be very careful as well. You have it's. A. Hard. It's a hard thing to deal with sometimes is. It is. I think there's a couple of things why it tends to work for me. I think it's it's very different as a female and that's OK.

We know we're all very modern and we don't make gender assumptions and. Blood. I get it. I do. But a female in your home who has a calm demeanour and he's really talking you through the process and is taking the time, and I'll talk about time again a bit later on, is taking the time to listen to your concerns and explain to you clearly why you're mistaken. You're not, you're not, you're not mad, you're not an idiot. You are mistaken. And I can show you that other things can cause what's happening to you.

And here is a link to an article that talks about static. Here is an article, you know all those things and during my process of inspection, I generally find that I can talk most people down off of that ledge that they're on. I can pull them back from the edge of the rabbit hole by by facts and evidence, you know, pointing out the fact. Yes, I know bed bugs can live anywhere and we've all seen them everywhere. But in the early stages of an infestation, they are not going to be living in your hallway cupboard or, you know, in the bathroom or the kitchen.

You know, finding the bed bug in the kitchen, to me is always a red flag for a neighbouring property issue. I don't know about you. Yeah. I'll be honest, I I will agree with you because I I don't do many bed bug jobs per year. That's how many I get. I will agree with you, you're more of the expert than me. OK so you know and just talking about the logic of their behaviour, how they want to be near the bed. It's our actions that push them away from the beds 9 times out of 10. I know females move away a bit for for biological reasons, but generally speaking, if you leave them alone and you'd happen to change your clothing before you leave your bedroom, you're probably not going to spread them to your lounge.

In the early stages at least, let's say in the first three or four months, it's highly unlikely. If you're the person that gets up in the morning, has got an en suite shower and you get out your night clothes, have your shower, put your clean that what clothes on from the wardrobe that's been nowhere near the bed and leaves the bedroom, you're not going to take them with you. If you're not spraying your bed with chemicals, they're not going to move out to your wardrobe and the ceiling junction. It's all of those little things.

You know, if you don't drag your mattress through the house when you've got bed bugs, you're probably not going to infest the hallway, the two bedrooms next door, and the lounge. You know, by by explaining those things, it gradually brings people down. That's really. Good. That is, that is you. You sound like you really are really good with customers I. Know a people person yeah, the. Way the way you explain it sounds like it would it would really calm calm someone down that was thinking because yeah, because it's a difficult situation.

It looks like you've got the grips of how to deal with it the best you. Can, it's something I enjoy. I, I do enjoy that part of the job, but there are cases where you just cannot convince the person. And on a couple of occasions I have said I recommend you speak to your GP, you know, and that's as far as I'll go. OK. You know, but yeah, there are the occasional cases. Don't you find it bad when like the I've heard cases of where sadly they go to the GP and they tell them what they think it is and GP?

Yeah they are bedbugs. Get a pest controller. You can't tell by the bikes by the bikes, can you? I usually say take my report with you. I'll. Do you good? Take my report with you, which I make quite detailed if I know it's going to be that kind of. And I'd say they're quite rare. I mean, you know, they're not everyday cases. But yeah, I'll say take my report with you to explain to the GP why it cannot be this and we need to look at other things. Right, right. Also I've just been corrected by Jason.

He says you, you are wrong. You are allowed to catch and release it back outside. OK, so throwing the towel over it safely and not harming it and putting it out the window. Apparently it's legal. I wouldn't want to do that though, to be fair. So you know, I wouldn't. Well, it's like the old grey squirrel question, isn't it? When they get, you know, they get trapped. You're not allowed to release them. You're not not native. And yet before I did the course, I was not aware of that. Before I did my level 2 course I I would have just let it go or assumed that if I gave it to a wildlife place they'd nurture it back to health and.

Oh, they'd nurture it. They'd nurture it different way they would is it even says like I said I didn't post but it went in my local town a while ago. There was the injured grey squirrel and someone they're all talking about it and someone put a screenshot up saying if you take that to the vets they'll just euthanize it and it says it they're not allowed. And they said that's even if you make it in your car without being attacked. By the squirrel, yeah. Like trying to get out of your car, Jason's actually said.

Place it in a box and and release it at night. Don't release it in the daytime. The man of facts tonight, Jason, every day is. A school day it. Is so obviously you're, you're new from that perspective, do you, is it just bed bug control or do you cover any other kind of insects at all? Only so my initial plan was to do you know Wasps, because everybody knows Wasps can be a nice little steady stream of income in the. Sun Oh yes they are. I know that too well. So that was my plan and I did plan to sort of steel myself for other domestic pest cockroaches and stuff.

Obviously I'll do fleas if necessary. I don't like to treat for carpet beetles and I'll explain why in a minute. But then when I thought about it, I thought if I want to do Wasps, I really need to go out with someone a few times to actually see how it's done. You can't learn this job on paper. You can't just go and do this. And now you've got to be a lot more accurate with the way you. Do this. Yeah, yeah. I know all about the chemicals and all that. That was a hot topic last summer in the it's.

Very, Yeah, it very much was Yeah, up in the end commenting and then. So, yeah. And then I think a couple of months ago I just thought now do you know what, I'm just going to, I'm just going to stick to the bedbugs partly because I think it's better I thought myself from the business perspective and from a confidence perspective. I think if I'm going to, if I'm going to say I'm specialised in bedbugs, well then I should specialised in bedbugs. And so, yeah, I've limited my market somewhat. However, I I have confidence that the brand will grow and it will be very successful.

That's. I mean, obviously it is an industry where it is an industry where you can specialised, They say you can specialised and that really is specialising. Yeah, that is because there is, you're not alone obviously you started out, but there is firms that just do bed books. It's obviously they're a little bit bigger than you, but it doesn't happen overnight, does it? They probably started out just doing it themselves. Yep, they did. So it is, it can, it can be a a good business if you know what you're doing and you market it the right way, etcetera.

I mean, I'm never going to be, I'm never going to be taking the big money jobs, you know, the, you know, the, the heat treatment jobs because I, I, I'm not strong enough to hook that kind of equipment around, frankly. And also it's, it has to be so precise to get heat treatment right. I, I came into when I started doing my own well, when I was working before I came across so many heat treatment failures. I was of the opinion that heat treatments don't work. My opinion has changed a bit because I've met a few people now that are successful at heat treatments.

But I find that it's not just a matter if they come in, they set up some heaters, they bugger off, they come back. You know, these are guys that are going in measuring the, you know, they're measuring the temperatures in the voids and in, in, in cool spots. They're heating much quicker now. I think part of the problem in the early days of heat, at least here, was they were electric heaters and things like that. They don't get the heat out quick enough. The bed bugs just move. They withdraw into the walls, they withdraw into the floors or wherever the electrical system.

I heard some of the old ones take 6 to 8 hours to heat up. That's no good, is it? Yeah, that's just not going to work. So what I have discovered in the last year is every method can what in fact it's process over product. So the way you do the job and whether that includes preparation or post treatment or what the treatment itself, it's process over product. Every single process can work for some people. So there are guys that still just use chemical. There are some people that will use steam and a chemical or steam and a non chemical product, the E silicon dioxide, that kind of thing.

There are people that make heat work. They can all work, but it is about how you do it and how much you understand the location, the construction of the building, all these things can be relevant. I would say never use heat treatment in a block of flats. You know a 1970s tower block which the construction is so open and the pipe work is all shared and the electrical system is all shared. You heat up that flat in the middle, the chances are at least one or two bed bugs. If you don't do it quick enough and well enough, you're going to get into neighbouring properties.

I've heard it where that in London. I don't know who, but they've had where they just do they heat the entire block of flats up instead. That was the cost of pretty penny I. Mean, I don't even know. I mean, it must work to a certain extent. But again, you're in the group. You read the posts the gentleman posted yesterday or the day before. He's in a block. The company, the the housing association or the landlords of the block have bought in a large company. They've paid them a rather large sum of money.

That would do me nicely for the year, thank you very much. To do heat treatments and it's failed. Oh, that's not good. It's failed, so I don't know. I don't know. I don't even know if that would be possible to cover an entire tower block. That seems utterly impossible to me. It does or if someone said I don't know if it was true or they. Just or maybe a smaller block, but even. Maybe even smaller. Yeah, you know, even like a, you know, a an 8 flat 4 Storey block. I I just think the the variables are just too much.

I'd rather take a more targeted direct approach.

You're all right. It's always about targeted treatments. It is.

Oh, we've the biggest. It was obviously on the group. The biggest thing you mentioned is please don't put up your bike pictures. It's not an indicator.

Because I've had people show me bites before in person. I was like, that's not, I can't. That's not an indicator. That's not and. I find that there are sometimes where you look at a bite, even though I say it, I mean, you see it and it's not just once a day. I mean, it's literally constantly. I should have it. I should have it on my clipboard, you know, so I can just copy and paste it. Each time I've I've, I've done it, I've walked and looked and thought, well, they look suspicious even I do it sometimes.

But you yeah, it's a hard 1A. Hard one, because the problem is sometimes people don't tell you, but then they start scratching them. Yeah, making them worse. Now see the other thing is so many people don't respond to the bikes. You know, I, I have heard it quoted and probably Louis will probably know better than I do on this, but I have heard it quoted. Some people believe that around about 60% of people have little or no reaction to bed bug bites. It's crazy, isn't it, when you think about it? What?

The bed. Bug. What the bed bug actually does to you when you read what they do? Yeah, they put, they put. What's it called? They numb the area, don't they, while they're doing it so you don't feel it? Yeah, crazy. So neither me or my husband respond to bed bug bites. Guess how I know brought them home? Oh. I heard about that, yeah, on the. Yeah, there we go. That wasn't fun. I have many skin leak leasing pictures from feeding Bedbug over the last 45 years. I told you he knows. And they don't look all the same.

Exactly. I can feel 1 bed bug feeding. Oh yeah? Well, you know. I have you have you offered your services to go and sleep in Richard's lab for the night and have bed bugs feeding to you? I. I would do it, I'd do it, I'd do it. It's a it's such a weird thing. I don't know. It's just because I became so familiar with them so up close and personal because the company I worked for was a non chemical company and not heat treatment. OK. So it is. We're talking getting up close and personal. You're literally sitting in a divan bed frame.

I'm, I'm not going to lie to you. Yeah, it's really detailed work. And I've had them on me and I've had them on my boat, so they just don't scare me. And I try and get this to my customers. I think of them as no different to my dog or my cat having fleas or getting bitten by mosquitoes on holiday because I know I can fix it. They don't. They don't just don't bother me, you know? I can quite happily just pick one up and yeah, fine, come on, off you go. In a bag or whatever I'm going to do with it, squish it in a bit of tissue down the loo.

They just don't bother me. The arts about Buckwin, so obviously. If only I could order them around now, all of you out of the door immediately, that would be good. That would be good. So obviously you were obviously a professional and you wouldn't obviously recommend that people try and do it themselves, would you? I would recommend nothing more than vacuuming. Vacuuming. OK, there you go people. Detailed vacuuming of the bed frame and the surrounding areas can, even if you can't completely resolve it, you know, sometimes there are really difficult cases.

Sometimes, you know, we see a lot of elderly people that have got them, you know, and they're housebound or bed bound and you know that like you have to work with what you've got, you know what I mean? And a bed bound patient cannot be chemically treated. No, you're right. A lot of them, sadly, are in the sinks in care homes. Yep exactly. That's another Horror Story in it care homes yeah. So, yeah, so I I'm very much of the I will for people that are specifically about DE or silicon dioxide, so.

Everyone has that. Conversation. I'll have the conversation. Yeah, in diatomaceous earth if you didn't know, but I just in case anyone that isn't in the industry. Yeah. Something you've ever used? Yeah. Yeah. Do you use it? Do you use it on carpets and stuff? Edges. So what I was taught, the way I was trained, was to apply extremely lightly. Can you have that? Because I I was led to believe I don't. I've never used it. Although it's non-toxic, it's still if you breathe it in, it's not good. Absolutely.

And what you don't want and people say it, I, I you read it in the sprinkle your carpet with diatomaceous earth and it's like, no, please guys, please don't do that. So it's literally hidden areas along the edge of the skirting board and and apply and I really, really, really mean lightly. You should barely be able to see it. Yeah, so I hidden areas on the bed frame, no problem. Backs of head boards, no problems. Backs and underneath of sofas, no problems. But you don't really want it on the front cushions because when you sit down you might get a little puff and you really don't want that in the air.

No, no you don't. There we go. The complete inhalant hazard if over applied and also leads to psychosis, irreversible medical condition. Sicosis absolutely damages to your lungs. So it is. Serious knowledge in here. Handle with caution. Handle with caution. It it, it's and I've been I've walked into places where as I walk through the front door, I can smell the DE in the air. And that is no exaggeration, literally the fan bases that are white where it is pile like literally. And yeah, crazy amounts used.

I removed the cement. Today, because somebody had recommended, I think it was a 5 litre tub, you know, they put a link up from Amazon. I wouldn't use that in two years. That's a lot of powder. You know what I mean? So I removed the comment just because of that health concern. Somebody would probably go and do it though, wouldn't they? Go and buy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's why like I'm in there Swift, get that comment out. I'm just not. As I say, it can be useful, but it needs to be treated with caution and not sprinkling it everywhere and definitely not on places like your mattress, you know?

Another tip here, backing things will be destroyed by vacuuming DE over time. Also true. Also true. I'm learning. I'm, I'm learning big time. Here I am. Do you know what's really I'm? I'm feeling relieved and somewhat smug because this is stuff that I've learnt, this is stuff I've been taught, this is stuff I've learnt through experience and I get a lot of pest controllers. Bless you all guys, but you've learnt your way and you don't want to hear another approach. Ah, see, I, I hate that because our industry has made a lot of, obviously we do, you know, trade show days.

All the associations have their on the road days. And the reason we do CPD continuous professional development is so we can learn new ways of doing our job better. So I'm open to all the new methods, but there are some of the old guards who will never change how they do it. Yeah, and I'm afraid we're not in the 80s and 90s anymore. Back then, maybe you could walk into a house, a 20 minute spray, you might have to go back once for a second respray and that'd be it. Those days are gone, guys. We're not there anymore.

The resistance issue is becoming really quite frightening now, and it's. One thing that I heard it wasn't on my podcast is on Beauties and beasties when Doctor Richard Naylor on and it blew my mind about how these pyrethroid resistance happened and but I always thought it was the best controllers over the years. Apparently not the bed frames. The bed frames are late steamed pyrethroids. I was like, done. I didn't know that. When I heard it, I was like, I didn't know that. I think there's that and another personal pet theory is where you've got more people using low dosage products.

You know, it's almost like getting a vaccine. I know the process is different and Louis again, can give you the biology on this, but if you are exposed several times to a low dose of something, you, you become not immune necessarily, but it affects you less. It's the same with addiction. If you think about it, you know, cigarettes, whether it's nicotine or illegal drugs, you need more and more and more in order to do the job. And we cannot make stronger and stronger chemicals because because of the life cycle issue, their life cycle's so quick, you know, compared to and we're going to damage human health.

I mean, some of the products sold abroad are absolutely terrifying. I am so thankful that we are governed. I know, you know, there's a whole EU argument that's happened and we're over that now. Thank you very much. But I am extremely grateful for those strict EU health laws because even the products we use, we know they are still harmful. We cannot deny that. Sadly though with even the bedbug space you buy, I hate to say it and correct me if I'm wrong but anyone can go and buy them on the Internet but if you go to a proper professional pest control supplier they won't.

They won't sell you it but there's many shops on and unfortunately. Yes, I agree. And I was when I did my so I did my because I was new to business. I actually went with the DPCA and I did their their business startup course which included the level 2, blah, blah, blah. I was lucky enough to be on the level 2 with the lady that is the new chief exec, I think Rasheen, I think her name is. And she took the course with us because she knew nothing about pest control. So she wanted to learn it from that perspective, which I really respected her for.

Now she is lobbying Parliament and I've had several conversations with her about that and she's going to be trying to, I mean, we'll never stop it. It's just the the way of modern shopping. But some more regulation, some more customs cheques, those sorts of. Things. Oh yeah, I mean, you have to buy with denticides now you have to have at least the basic certificate, but not but not with insecticide. It's very weird. Yeah, it is. Yeah. But obviously if you're not a professional using professional grade products, you're breaking the label and just because you bought a product, you don't know how to use the product effectively.

This is it. As I say, process over product. If it was just a matter of the American market and Louis will be very familiar with this Crossfire. They all talk about crossfire, Crossfire and apprehend, but let's stick with Crossfire for now. If it was just as simple as going out and buying a canister of Crossfire and spraying it a miracle and and apprehend as well, I suppose. Really. Then America would no longer have a bedbug problem. There you go. And yet we still do so. It is process over product.

Some of the bedbug clips I've put out there from SO with Richard Naylor on on YouTube, I get comments like it's class far good and I don't reply to them. I'm like, I'm not replying, I'm no expert, I'm not advising nothing. I just say it's not a product licence for use in the UK and because I only really comment in the UK, my group which is UK based, it says UK in the title but you'd never believe it reading some of the posts. That's not licence for use in the UK. That is my only response on it. It may be a fabulous chemical, It may be really good if you.

As you say, I mean if they all these products did work, they'd be wiped out America by now nearly. Right, because out there you can buy it. You don't need a licence of any kind. Unless you're in California, then it's very. Well, OK, thank California maybe, but maybe California sensible. Yeah, sadly, we followed them at California and a lot of things it's. Yeah, I mean, I think. It's a good some of them ain't, but you know. Exactly. And, and this is the thing I think we all need to accept. I'm not going to comment on rodenticides because that's not my area of expertise, but we're just going to have to accept the fact we are not.

While we are looking after human health, we are not going to develop a product that wipes out bed bugs and fleas and head lice and all those other creatures that are becoming immune to the chemicals that we can, and I use this term loosely, safely use because we know we have to have health monitoring because we use these products. If a product is used incorrectly or on bed linens, for example, which is another horrific story I hear all the time. See, I don't even spray the mattress. See if people would read the label all the time.

You're not allowed to. Right, with some products you can. You can and there's that there's that, there's there's one you got a soup symmetrical super, but they've also got a spray version for mattresses. Yes, that one is. RTU Yeah, yeah. But I I don't even with the ones. And again, it's it's one of those things just because you can think about it, should you do you need to? It's almost part, it's almost a risk assessment. Do you need to spray the mattress? No, you don't. You just don't. No, do I?

Don't spray the mattress. Obviously you could. Do you do? Do you steam? Yes, my my favourite taste you. Steam the I'm presuming you steam the mattress as well. Don't. You again. The bottom line is if they're on your mattress, you can see them. Yeah. They're not invisible, you know, a quick, you know, a turn around the seams, a quick look around the buttons. But yeah, I'll run the steamer over the button area around the seams, those sorts of places. But am I steaming the whole mattress? No. No, they only get you to go to 1 particular area.

And Adam, mate, what's my mate? Thank you. Yeah, you're right. It was the Symmetro RFU. Yeah. Is that the one here? That's the one, but you don't need to. You don't need to, but yeah, thanks for popping in, Adam from TNR PES Solutions. Yeah, thanks for popping in, mate. Two years in business he's been in. Well done. Nice. Yeah, so right. Where do you sit? Have you got any advice on other pest gover this? I know there's people in there watching from the public, but this is actually, you know, an industry focused podcast.

Have you got any tips that not everyone specialises in bed book control, obviously. Have you got any tips on inspecting? What's called best tips on on on inspecting? So when I turn up at a customer's house we have, I'll try and have a little chat with them first. Tell me what's been going on. Where did this start? When did it start? What exactly has been happening? What have you found? And put the kettle on that. That's, that's how my, my visits go. And then I've got me a cup of tea and I've got some information there.

This has been going on for six months. I was sleeping in this room, but I've now moved to this room. I'm still being bitten. La, la, la. So you've got a narrative in your head. It. OK. So. OK. Had you been away recently? Yeah. Well, we came back from wherever about 3 weeks before, had terrible bites on holiday, thought it was mosquitoes. OK. So now you've got a narrative in your head. They think they've had them for about 6 months. You'll, you're not going to have to look that hard, right? Not after six months, but.

Anyway. So and then again it depends on the bed. So it would be bed linens off and it sounds really basic stuff. I don't inspect pillows duvets beyond a quick cursory look. Put them to one side mattress. So I look at the area of the mattress so I can see, so the surface, the sides, especially around the handles, the handles on the, it's one of those little hot spots and obviously seams around the head end of the bed. So pull it down the bed a little bit, visual look that way, mattress off the bed and then inspect the underside.

So exactly the same. And you're looking for your black spot in the faecal trace. You might see bedbugs on there. You do see bedbugs running sometimes but I generally don't find the mattress is the favourite spot for them unless it's a metal framed bed and then you're sorry is. It is it the headboard? This is my gas no? Headboard is my next place, so pull the bed away from the wall, get behind the headboard and you don't. I've never needed to remove the fabric for an inspection because they tend to hang around just on the little seams.

They like to hide in a little nook, so creases, seams, any piping, zips around zips. So just peeling back and looking. It's just a visual inspection. And where the headboard fixes to the bed, there's often those two wooden posts. Looking at those, quite often find faecal trace on those. Then headboard off the bed, check where it attaches to the bed. So I'm assuming this is going to be a divan bed. For for. For our purposes, there's drawers. Take the drawers out. Usually at this stage they've got stuff in the drawers.

So I just take the drawers out at this point. Don't go through them right now. Turn the divan upside down. Look around the edges of that fabric underneath, especially around the feet, wheels, legs, anything like that which can be, can not always, but can be an entry point to the bed, up the leg, up the wheel, onto the bed. Yeah. So looking around that, if I don't find anything around those edges, I don't take the fabric off. So I'd be expecting to find shed skins and lifebugs in those areas. So I found no faecal on the back of the headboard, no eggs.

That black fabric that's usually on the back of a headboard. Fabulous for seeing eggs. You can't not see them. You you just can't it, it's so distinctive and so visible. You know, you've got your torch, you've got your as long as you've got your glasses on, you'll see them. So I found no shed skins around the bottom of the bed. I've seen no life bugs. There's no faecal trace on the back of the headboard. All I'm going to do at that stage is monitor that that's what we're going to do at this stage.

We're going to pop a monitor down. I haven't seen anything here. However, while I was here, I did happen to notice a couple of carpet beetle shed skins. OK, carpet beetle larvae shed skins. Well, the the hairs from the carpet beetle larvae. I know, Louis. I know they've got a proper name, but I don't know it. Wally Bear. No, no, but the hair. The actual hair. Sorry, I've got the name it. Begins with St but I've forgotten what it is. So those hairs can become airborne and they can cause a bite like skin reaction that is frequently mistaken for bed bug bites.

It's fast off the mark. Thank you, I knew there wasn't it. I'm not going to attempt to select to say that. Hey, I can't say it. Has this. No, I can't say it. It's fine. Thank you, Louis. You. Want that, Louis? People you're watching after the fact, look on the video. It's there. It's written. Down for everyone to see. So those hairs can, they're very, they're tiny, they can Pierce the skin and they can cause a bite like skin reaction. 9 times out of 10, those skin reactions and you'll see in the group, I always say bites, stroke, skin reactions.

If it's not bed bugs, it's carpet beetle larvae hairs. It really is. And I did not believe it until I I've seen it in countless, countless cases. So it's the next thing I look for while I'm having a look along that skirting board area. I'm looking for those as well. Or on the bed frame. You'll find them on the bed frame quite a lot. It lines up with what Doctor Richard Naylor said. He actually mentioned that carpet beetles is one of the biggest misidentifications, but it's actually not bed bugs.

It's it's carpet beetle, he said. It's now I'm. Going to get on to why I don't treat for carpet beetles. If you're having skin reactions from them, if they're destroying your silk carpet, OK, fair play, we're going to do something about that. But if you're the reason you want the carpet beetles gone is because of skin reactions, the last thing you want to do is kill more carpet beetle larvae because then you've got more deteriorating corpses, more hairs becoming airborne and more skin reactions.

So I just recommend thorough, detailed vacuuming and something to diminish static. This was something else I think I spoke to Richard about and another pest controller. It's the static that causes it to be attracted to us if it's not, because quite often these hairs get caught in waistbands and collars for ladies in bra straps and things like that. The hairs get caught in it, and then they get these persistent lines of bites. Yeah, in these areas. In this book, Bantam biting, but they've got this little book called Baratine's Control Technicians and it's got that about static in offices.

Yeah, it's got that in there. I used it actually the house. I actually said read this. This is what I think you got and it and it turned out, yeah. A really simple solution. A little bit of fabric conditioner mixed with some water and lightly sprayed. Yeah. There you go. It's, it's so simple. We don't have to go around killing everything. I'm a little bit of a hippie. I can I tell you one of my funniest stories I got, I got called to a job in London and I turned up and it was in quite a hipster area of East London.

And there was this lovely young couple in their early 20s in their lovely little apartment and they had bed bugs and they'd had them for a fair few months. Yeah. They were both vegans, actually. I got offered the worst cup of tea in my life. Would you like a cup of tea? Yes, please. Obviously. Would. Would you like pea milk in that? Yeah, I think that's the face I pulled. And I was like, you know what, I think I'll have it black, thank you. But anyway, so the, the the young lady went to work and the, the gentleman was the one at home with, you know, one of these with the top not and all of that business.

And he said, will you be able to get rid of them without killing them? Wow. Not really. I'm not the Pied Piper. Of bed bug transportation, transplantation, yes 100 grand. Have to try. Yeah, we we had to have quite a serious conversation about how I completely understood these ethics, but this is a problem that could only be solved by me terminating their life. Did they? Gareth has got a job. Did they want you to do it or? They did. They did. I also had a Buddhist they had to leave the house because she couldn't bear to be in the property while I while I killed innocent creatures.

I said, well, I don't have to take the job. Yeah. She's no doubt, but I want them gone. All right. You just don't want to be in the house. Also, shout outs to Mark Porter. Mark Porter, thanks for popping in. He's had some big jobs. He has. He has. I know, I know, he's just had a lovely holiday as well. South. Africa. Very, very jealous of. But what do you want to get in the cage and swim with the sharks? That's what he did. Now I'll sleep in the bed bug filled room at Richard's house.

People are saying anti static spray also they're known as cable bugs. They also call it. I think it means from the static. And I think it's the same thing. I think we're talking about the same thing. They're called cable bugs is what is, but like it's the hairs from the carpet beetle larvae. And I don't think it's just carpet beetle larvae. I think it's any of the domestic court of larval stages they have. They have these things that he said that we can't say. Now he he's broke it down a little bit actually.

I said he hasty city. That's a hasty city. That sounds good. So it's hasty City. Right.

Yeah. So I think that's that's something people need to consider. And often, sometimes you know, if you can actually find those, you know, the, the, the carpet beetle sheds and actually show people that again, it goes back to that reassurance. Hang on, some don't have it. OK, Thank you. But some do. There we go. Yeah, some. Do as I said this, I keep saying to people I'm not an entomologist. I'm really not. I just happen to have a passion for bedbugs and I can recognise most of it and everything else I I fumble my way through or I reach out to people that I trust, like Louis.

I often tag him in the group. So something that comes up quite regularly is ladybird abdomens. Have you come across this? Now? I know Louis is now going to be searching through his gallery of pictures to show us. So quite often you will get it's the abdomen of an insect, it is brown, it is, it's got the lines across it. But again, he'll correct me. You know, the, the classic bedbug kind of looking thing. Sometimes it looks like there's blood in the abdomen. We had it in the group last week and believe me, the argument went on and on and on and.

On oh, I missed this postmark. I saw it, I looked at it. I said straight away, it looks like a ladybird part. It's beetle looks like a ladybird part. It went backwards, forth, backwards, forth, backwards and forwards. Now it's a bedbug. Look, you can see it, get new glasses. It went on and on and on. Anyway, Long story short, I was proved right, but anyway, they they look very much like it and it's really worth looking. I will do a post in the group and I'll I'll post it in the pest controllers group as well.

Yeah, ladybird bird beetles. That's it. So it's often the the Asian ladybirds in America. It comes up quite a lot. So are you. So are. You talking about what we call Harvey Quinn Ladybirds? Yes. Right. I've dealt with them before, yeah. But you can find the abdomens and believe me, honestly, that's fine. I'll put a post in the group maybe later. I've still got the pictures you let me use. So honestly, even myself and another, I would have said it was a bedbug abdomen until I learned differently.

And once you've seen enough, there's something about, I mean, look, geniuses will look and pick out specific things and specific the antennas wrong here or this is wrong that I don't do that. To me, the shape of it looks wrong. It's just slightly too round and it's almost got like a rim around the edge is how I describe it. But bugs and bird bugs, Martin bugs, swallow bugs again, these are things that look to the naked eye almost identical to bed bugs. I had a job and this is something, again, I only learnt from experience.

I went to a job and I I don't get many revisits. It's unusual for me to have to go back to a customer three times. By the time I'm going back four times, something is really wrong here. And this was a detached house, so we can rule out neighbours. The gentleman was being extremely careful. He was following all the instructions. And yet still he's showing me samples, He's still showing me live bugs walking around. What the hell is going on here? So I reached out to the manager of the company, said I can't figure this out.

I need you to come down and take a look at this job. And he came down and he looked and he said you need to get up in the loft. And there had been bats there at some point previously and they had left. So the bat bugs were coming down. They weren't breeding. And I think, I believe I could be wrong. I believe they actually need the correct host's blood to be able to breed normally. I could be wrong on that. So that that's just coming to my head. And then there are Swallow and Martin bugs, which look very similar, but I wouldn't say as much so as the bat bugs.

So be 100% certain if it doesn't look right, if something's not sitting right, then consider those other possibilities, especially in rural properties. Rural properties for sure.

There you go there. You go can be that people. You need to get Louis on your podcast. If he'd come on at some point, yeah. You need to get him one and I'll sit in the background being being helpful. Just could have both of you all like a round table. Yeah, there we go. Black bugs do need black bug for proper reproduction. That that was what I was told. OK, so. As I say, so if you're seeing live bugs but there's no breathing going on and you're in a rural property, ask that question. Do you have bats?

Have you had bats over the last year? It's worth. Asking we're never the thought of that that sounds they've got all chronic voice on on there. Are you OK to go for a bit or do you want to want to end it now or if? You've got more questions or if people have got more questions, I'm happy to go ahead. So with with bed bug, when you're doing that bed bug infestation and say so say the conditions are not as hygienic as you probably want, they're doing treatment. Do you make clients or do you do any prep at all that you can actually do it properly or not?

Sometimes you have to do it yourself. It's as simple as that. And you know, we've talked about elderly people, but you know, you have to consider mental health issues, drug and alcohol addiction, overcrowded living conditions. I mean, in London it, it's crazy down here, living conditions wise, it it, it can also be not so much in the private sector, but in the social sector. Once you're in the social sector, it doesn't matter if you have four more kids, the chances you'd be getting moved to a bigger house are virtually 0.

So for example in my house here, I live in a small 3 bedroom council house, 1 double bedroom, 2 singles. There's myself, my husband, my daughter and her husband and their two children live in here. Oh. OK, because that's just the way it is. So you get a lot of that. So yes, so sometimes you have to help. I'm one of the pest countries. So we all fall into different camps. Some people like everything prepped before you go out. I prefer not I if I can, I'll do the inspection and the treatment in the same day that would be.

What is the room in question is a complete and utter Everything's all over the floor and you can't see it. Yeah, in which case, hopefully so. I've had those cases and sometimes you have to get some social services involvement. OK, Yeah. Sometimes that's rare, but you do sometimes. Sometimes you have to price it into the job. I'm afraid you just have to price it in. It's going to cost this much for the prep work. You can all you can give the advice. So I go out and do the inspection. Obviously that's not going to be treated on the same day, It's impossible.

So yes, there would be some instructions. Bag up all, bag up all. Let's just get the floor clear. I'm not even going to stress about anything else, but let's get a clear workspace, get the rubbish in bin bags, put the books in piles, bag this stuff up and, and wash it. You know what I mean? Let's try and get a little bit of order to this situation. But it can be, you know. But in those circumstances, they've usually had bed bugs for a considerable amount of time before they've reached out for help.

For whatever reason, either poverty or shame or lack of capability, whatever. They are more complicated. They are much, much, much more complicated jobs and they're hard, much harder to resolve because bedbugs will, these are the jobs where people are going out and buying those 20 LB cans of spray and they're spraying the bed. So the bedbugs have then moved to the wall back of the wardrobe because the wardrobe is quite near the bed and up to the ceiling junction and into the plug socket. So you're, you're causing that spread.

And that's the main problem with those sprays. They they'll push them away for a few days, but they'll come back. People think, oh, it's worked. Yeah, I haven't had any bites for seven days. And then as that chemical dissipates over time because it doesn't have much residual, because it's a low grade product, boom, then they start coming back again. But they've already now they've deposited faecal trace in that area. They may have laid some eggs in that area. It now becomes another viable Harbridge.

And excuse me one second. No, you're all right. I'll just do a quick shout out. Shout outs to Jenny from the Pestigen podcast. I presume that is Jenny, the Great American podcast run by two great women pest controllers. Hi.

Hopefully that will do the trick. Yeah. So that you just create more HAR bridges. If you leave them alone, where they really want to be is the bed. So don't pay them off, don't agitate them. You remove them physically. Physical removal is the simplest form of pest control, right? You remove as many as you can find. As we said earlier, it won't cure the problem necessarily, but it will buy you breathing space. It's time to get the money together. Time to find the pest controller you know. Exactly because it's like I know, I know it's not the same but it's it's like when someone when someone's dog or cat gets fleas, literally they sell them a flea thing that don't that doesn't work.

They spray it down and it never works. I've got 4 bedroom mouse and it's tenant stand in this tiny little bottle. Yeah, I think it's going to work, but it's not no. And again, fleas are another problem. Fleas, all these insects that are a problem to humans in one way or another where we've become very reliant on chemicals. We're going to have to stop doing that. We're we're going to have to find other ways. Head lice. So my kids had head lice when they were younger. It ran through the estate and the school like a dose of salts.

None of the chemicals were working or using the same GP or getting the same chemical not working. So my mum came down, she comes from a farming family and she went. Using that stuff all the time is not good for you. It's basically a weakened, weaker version of sheep dip, she said. You don't want to be exposing yourself to that time and time again because we were doing it twice a week like it. Was, I don't know what it was, but it used to stink to high heaven. Absolutely. It doesn't really stink now.

Not. As bad and she told me to go for physical removal. The old fashioned Nick home conditioner twice a week for two weeks. She break the life cycle, job done. I had literally had mums queuing at my front door to show them how to. Do it well she would but it wasn't when I was at school but I heard stories of schools used to have a nitnurse go free your head have. To remember that, Yeah. Have been there, Andrew Ears, all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what. They call it early and and again, detection is early.

Detection is your greatest gift. Another tip for everyone, tell your customers, yeah, check your bed once a month. Yeah. Just have a quick look over it when you're changing your bed in wooden beds, you can just have a quick look. If you want to be a bit extra like I can be sometimes, take a couple of the slats off. Have a check. There's plenty of monitors out there. They vary in quality. I'm not going to promote anyone or diss anyone on this, but there are monitors out there. Try a couple. Best place for them because as we all know, position is what is key, right?

Because you go to customers housing, there's a couple chucked under the bottom end of the bed. I've had these monitors down for a month and they haven't shown anything. There's no bloody good there. Put your monitor under your mattress, whacker the headboard, head end of the bed.

You know you can have monitor. You don't have to have bed bugs to have monitors on your bed. Monitor on your bed, especially if you travel a lot or you work in. I mean, I come across the same people time and time again and I'm sure other pest controllers do. NHS workers care staff time and time again with bed bugs. They're public transport users, they're in and out of people's homes. They're up close and personal. They have a higher risk, higher risk of exposure. Repeat, repeat exposure. I was asked once to spray a luggage bag and I said no chance I'm not spraying that someone actually asked me to spray their luggage bag.

Right. I didn't do it. OK, They they, they go travelling a lot. They thought me spraying it with pyrethroids with help or I'm not doing that. Yeah, the thing the problem is with bedbugs, everything that is your automatic instinct is the wrong thing to do. Yeah. Everything that is your first thought is wrong and trying to get that out there. If I do, you know what? I don't care if this business works or not, if I can just get that message out there. The bedbug Queens 3 golden rules. If we can just get that out there, I'll be a happy woman.

It's good though, because you've got like obviously pest control is pest control, but you've got although it's business and that you have got a personal story and mission behind it. You want to help as many people and raise awareness as you can. So there's it's a bit more deeper and personal, I think to your business. It's not just to spray and pray and run. You know it's not anybody. Can do that. I've always said it, this job is the easiest way to make money, whether you're scrupulous or unscrupulous.

But for unscrupulous people, it it. I could walk in every house I walk into. I could stay well. And we, you know, well, I can't find anything. But bed bugs are really hard to find. And you have got bikes. I can sort this for you. That will be 1000 LB please. People. Will reach for the credit card every. Single. Time. I, I don't mention names or anything, but I've have heard in the past, I have heard in the past of people taking said money and just spraying water, but that reinforces the fact they think they've got them and.

Then they think that hasn't worked because I've still got these bites. It hasn't worked. You need to come back again or I need to get another pest control company. That's why getting to the root cause is absolutely essential. So OK, I'm not sure it's carpet beetles. Yeah, I'm not sure. But what harm in there is in is there in you had given a thorough vacuum in. I'll put some bed bug monitors down. You thoroughly vacuum, give it a little spray with the fabric conditioner Jobby or some other whatever, you know anti static thing exists out there and let's see where we are in two weeks time.

That's it. But it won't make me big money, it won't put me at the top of Google, and it won't buy me that huge advertising budget. But hey, I don't care. I can sleep at night. Well, that's your Yeah, you're right, because you are supposed to find dead insect. But that's one thing. I know that blue that actually, I remember when I started speaking on American groups, I said we actually have to. I'm not saying every best because I know a lot of my friends don't treat unless it's an issue, but they were blind blown that we had to find a problem to spray.

I was like what I said, you can't. We have to find the issue to spray and he isn't like that. That's in chat. She doesn't do that, but there is people that do. I had one in the group last week. I'm having an annual preventative spray. That's what they call it, preventative. Yeah, on that different world though. I I just don't get that. I don't. Imagine you're in California, though. That one happened. Well, no, probably not California, but yeah, I, I've, I've never had an occasion.

I've had one occasion where I didn't find any evidence and then they called me back a week later because they were still receiving bites. And then I did find the I did find they had one bed bug. That's it. That wasn't enough, that is. That's not enough for you to treat though, is it? I wasn't because there was no further evidence, there were no chickens, there were no eggs. So no, I didn't treat. I didn't treat. And Speaking of the single bedbug infestations, that never happened in 10 years, I've seen four, so they are pretty damn rare.

But it does happen. Every infestation starts with one bedbug. If that person spots the problem early, it will only ever be 1 bed bug. That's, that's good, good, good, clear advice. Oh, I had one story from Doctor Richard Naley. He was on about, you know, how he sells bed bugs. He would have a particular address in another country. And he said this address was ordering loads of them. And he's hard to do a bit of digging. And in the end, he says we didn't send them. We think it was somebody wanting to plant bed bugs in the in a, he says.

So now he says you have to be, not anyone can buy them. He says you have to have a reason you want them, not you can't buy it. And we didn't send them. He said it might have been a case of to get their own back on somebody. But I've seen it used as a threat. Go on Twitter and type bed bugs into the search. Yeah. And go for like, and just have a read through the latest stories. There's loads. They will use it as a threat. I'll send the bed bugs to you through the post.

So I wouldn't be surprised. However, you know, you're going to spin. You know, if you open your post, you're going to see it. They're not invisible. That's another little myth that I'd like to bust. But you can see them. You can see them. All right. OK. A newly hatched 1st in Star OK. They're very straw coloured, very light in colour until they take that first feed, but you can still see them. They are not invisible. The eggs are not invisible. If you. And you look thoroughly, you will find the signs.

Yeah, I got told once that I was lying and I could see them crawling all over her face and I was just lying. Yeah, that's one of those delicate situations. I said I had to speak to the daughter because she rang us up calling the charlatans. I said we're not charlatans. You agreed to pay the little and a little, you know, survey to come and have a look because it's not free, but it's as if it was a charlatan. The charge you God knows how much money and took your money and been off. But we didn't do that.

Her daughter rang and she apologised. I'm so sorry and. That's a really difficult case. Again, in some ways this is a subject I can approach differently because there is a condition that middle-aged women can get. Whether you get formulation I think is what they call it. It is to do with our wonderful hormone changes. So I can have that slightly different perspective and have that conversation. Obviously that's not the same as hallucinating bugs, but that itching feeling, that crawling skin feeling, I I that's the conversation I can open up that I suggest possibly you wouldn't be able to.

No, I would. No, definitely was not.

Thanks, Louis for that. Cheers.

Yeah, that's not something. Even if I tried it, it wasn't down. Well, I don't know what I'm talking about. I read this on Google. It might be this. Don't talk to me about Google. Go now, Google. Step away from Google. We do not Google anything. Oh yeah, Google will just convince you dying or they will convince you of everything Google will. And you hear but you see it but but the ID app told me it was a bed bug. You talk about that the ID apps do get a lot wrong. They do. Yeah, yeah. Trying to get to get some right.

Usually get Wasps correct and honey bees and stuff like that. Common things, but. Anything small and brown is a bed. Yeah, yes, you're right. Every side is. The brown recluse like you know, it's it. It just seems to go that way. Now this is another thing fear sales, right? It sells better than sex. So how well can we going to sell my products and I don't mean mine, I mean Google in general, you know, it's it's a business. In general, it's a bill these, you know, Twitter, it's a business. I'll, I'll show you something now.

I'll show you before the show. But this here, I was told one day that in this 21st century, with all the gadgets and AI we've got, I was showing off my cards on LinkedIn Monks. Here they are and they've got the names, etcetera on there. And I would I actually got told they told me that these these are a bit primitive, but at least at least the pictures are. Right, it's basic. It didn't listen. I'm still writing reports by hand. That's how old fashioned I am. Oh. Everyone learns differently, but I think actually seeing pictures at least it's more accurate than what Google would tell you.

See a picture like that where you can see. So I think that was maybe. I'm not awkward and small. Beetles are not my thing, but I think that was either a drugstore beetle, cigarette beetle, or biscuit beetle or something in that category. Well done. It was a foreign grain beetle but you weren't far off because there's tonnes of beetles that look similar. I'm getting better. I, you know, I get a bit troubled with my sawtooth grain beetles and some of the merchant grain beetle because to me they look exactly the same.

I know they're not Louis, but you know, it's amazing. I love you had to clarify that. You know, it's seeing a nice clear picture where you can actually get good definition and you can see that head shape and the body shape it it makes ID so much you know you a blurry picture. What is this a bed bug? No, that is officially a BLOB. Yeah, I've had it before where I've had a someone sent me a picture and they were convinced they had a hornet's nest. Oh yeah? Well, it was for us. It was a it was a fly.

It's a mimic Hornet. It was, and it actually looked like a Hornet. Amazing. You can't get them. I googled it and double checked it. IAID the AI was actually right. It was I double. Checked it. I mean, there's no. Listen, I said to her, I said to her, even if you had Hornets, they're all over the place. They may not be in your garden. I I won't go out if someone just has a couple on on the tree. If you've got a you know if you, you know if, if it's danger in people's lives, even though they are, even though the public don't realise that Hornets are very gentle by nature, they are.

Unless you really annoy them, then they will go for you. I was stung by 1 as a child, the most painful thing I've ever. They used to live in Spain as a child, so they they were, they were out there. And yeah, I got stung. And honestly, the most painful thing I've ever experienced in my life, including childbirth.

Really, really awful things. But no, it was just a, it was a mimic and you couldn't believe me. I says, well, it's not, it's not a Hornet like you think. It is a slug yourself if you don't believe me. But yeah, well, exactly. And that's why having that, you know, having that I, I, you know, your little flip book there and being. Able more than that. I've got more. I've got more than them. I have, but yeah. Well, I have, I mean, you know, we've, we've all got our books and our bits on. This little pack, there's 54 different insects on it and I think it's like, I think with the with the you get this because it's easy to put in the van into it and I bowl everywhere.

I think with the clip, it's 15 lbs. I think not bad. It's it's. Useful. It's thinking your domestic pests, you know the the common things you you know your your pantry pests, your general household pests. It's a useful. Thing to have and we've got got a couple of the van too. Stay in the van. Yep, I'm as well. And that way you can actually say to the customer, look, hang on for a minute, out to the car, show them, yeah. Because but we've got the end of the day, although we are pest controllers, we're not an expert in every single bug.

Factually there's thousands. You know, it's like beetles is like stub species and all sorts. There's not loads of them. Yeah, as I say, I can recognise common things that we find in our homes generally. But, you know, anything more exotic, I'll either pop it in, you know, if I'm not sure I'll, I'll tend to pop it in one of the pest groups first before I go to AI or I'll reach out to more knowledgeable people. But you know, yeah, when we're not, we're, we're not scientists, we're not entomologists.

Most of us, you know, we've got and all that out there, you know, I'm just a girl from a council estate in Essex, you know what I mean? My education was basic. There's nothing wrong with that at all. No, nothing wrong with it. But that's that's my level. I'm I'm not, I don't remember Latin names. And I remember a couple of the Yeah, I was. Thinking of going for the field bar just course at one point at some point, but I've got to learn all these Latin names. They've got to know them by ID and that's that's what will hold me back.

I've got remember them and because to I think to learn them you've got to break them up into little parts so you can say them and then keep saying them correctly and spelling them correctly. Well, I had to do that with the chemicals for the, I will say with Latin, it's it's, it's quite a it's an as it's written language is what I was told. It's So what you see is how you say it. But breaking it down like like Louis did earlier will will be helpful.

But yeah, I I think learning that stuff is is hard. I've got a good friend come in, Andrew Saneski. He's he runs an American podcast and he's got, he's got a pest firm over there and he's got his own lab to do all sorts on insects. And he says we often use pest pictures to communicate when we have a language barrier with a tenant. Yeah, that can be an issue. Language barriers is something we don't really talk about much especially, I mean, OK, you know, I live in London, we're very diverse, you know what I mean?

We've got every language, every culture, you know, and, and you see all different kinds of family living arrangements. My biggest nightmare is when there aren't bed frames, when it's just a couple of rolled up mats on the floor. That's that's a bit of a problem because if you've got a bed frame, they'll probably most likely mostly be in the bed frame when you're sleeping on the floor, they're going to be in other areas. So it just complicates things a bit. I don't think some people, yeah, I've heard some really quite unpleasant language around certain cultures.

And I think where it comes in is if I came from a country where the spiders the size of my hand and snakes the size of my leg, I'm not going to be worried about a little bug that's about yay big. Yeah, they're different cultures and certain and certain insects don't bother people like in. It just doesn't bother them generally because it's I. Think Wing in the West have become very dependent on, I think since the 50s when we sort of had chemicals that worked and we're at DDT. We didn't know it was going to kill us and everything else.

But hey, you know, it worked for a while. I, I think we've just become reliant. We've got flies. We're going to go and buy a can of fly spray. Yeah, I'm more for the sticky. You know, the old fashioned sticky fly. Paper. Yeah, they could. They work. They were.

So in my back garden at home we, we've got, well at the time we had four dogs and they had one area in the garden which was their toilet, you know, so we could keep the garden nice. But in the summer, the urine and everything, even when you're picking the poo up, like you know, there was loads of flies in our backroom. What I did there is put outside. I used them disgusting bags that stink. They're organic and they work quite well. OK but that but they do smell to high heaven. Yeah, all I did was I just put I went, went to Poundland.

Other retailers are available. I bought a pack of five fly papers, hung them up in the back room, really sorted. They sorted the issue within a few days, within a few days. But don't ever not an issue for you. Don't take that wrong. Don't get your hair caught on them. I love them. Yeah, really. I love not having hair. Actually, I I embraced it a long time ago. Well considering it got the £100 to get my hair done the other day, yeah I envy you. Yeah, it's big, like where I live. I live in like 1 of the smallest counties in the UK, in Rutland and in Oakham and I tell you what, there is more women's hairdressers and men's barbers than there is actual shops.

Is that penny Nail bars? That's that's it. There's a few of them, beauty, beauty, beauticians and all that. Are there any actual shook in comparison? There's more of them than there is of actual, actual shops. I know what it is. It seems to be another area growth area. Also, we have a lot of, we have, we have a lot of, not to pick on it, but we have a lot of Turkish barbers. They're very good though. We have a lot of them. The cash is on me roast. Yeah, the cash is king. Do you say cash is king?

Listen, I'm, I'm a big fan of cash. No, not just because I'm, you know, not because of the tax man, but I'm just a big fan of cash. I think you can track your spending easier. If I've got £30 in my hand and I'm buying a couple of things you get in your chain and you're seeing that diminish. Whereas if I'm just tap tap, tap. Can't do it. You can't do it. But you spent all your money. Oh no, I've spent it all. You don't think you say that? Whatever the noise is. But you know, modern technology is wonderful.

I was saying I was doing an inspection down in Oxfordshire the other day and the lady was like, oh, do I need to go to the cash point and draw money out for you? I was like, do you have a banking? Oh really old, so I still get that. Do you need cash? I could go and walk down and get yourself I've got I've got a card machine. Hey if. You've got a card machine or we've all got banking apps now that's just as easy. You know, the banking apps I find work. Well, that's a funny little thing. On a side note, I'm getting there seems to be a lot of work in Oxfordshire at the moment.

I've had more calls to Oxfordshire than anywhere else and I don't know what's going on, but something is going on in that area. Oh, OK. Something will come out, I reckon at some point in the future, maybe the. Article from you, the older magazines. It'll be you at the front cover. The Queen has sorted out sorted out the. Whole of Oxford. Yeah. Well, not until they get rid of their congestion charging scheme. No, no, that's not fair. I can. Understand why Oxford have they got? That in they've just bought one in.

I'm very naive, you see, I live in the countryside and I just know that London's got a congestion charge didn't I didn't know any other cities having. Oh yeah, Birmingham definitely got one. How country I am people. That that's that would be my absolute heaven to be in the countryside. I do, I do go into cities obviously, but closest argument is Peterborough or Leicester, but not often. But yeah, so, but so where, where do you see bed book, bed book work going in the future? Next 4 to 10 years you think it's going to get more prevalent?

Yeah, I, I think so. And as I say, I, I just look at America, you know, they, they throw everything at it. Their, their health and safety laws and their environmental laws aren't as strict as ours. Countries where they have virtually no health and safety laws, where you just go and buy, you know, farming farmyard pesticides and you can use them in your house. You know, in certain parts of the world, if they can't get on top of them doing that, we're not going. We're not going to. If we carry on on the same trajectory and relying on chemicals, we are going to have to look at other methodology, other practises far more useful.

I could not do what I do without the Polti Simex Eradicator. I could not work without it. And if you haven't got one, get one. If you've got one, get another one as backup. I mean that most sincerely. That is going to be the way forward. And non, non insecticide treatments perhaps apprehend, I don't know. Doctor Richard Naylor talks very highly of it. Apparently, according to this article I read in the only bit I will say I might get right about this article in the latest BPCA magazine is that it's currently being trialled in the UK is what is what was said in the article.

As well. So he has been working on it. I'm hoping while I'm down there next month I'm going to, I'm hoping that I'm going to have a chance to see some of his slides. He reckons he's got some lovely shots of fungus actually growing out of the backs of bedbugs, so that I'd be fascinated to see that. Maybe it'll be DE or silicon dioxide, I don't know, but I don't think insecticide is the future for bedbug control. OK, I I won't argue with you because I think it is going if you keep, I think it is going that way.

Yeah, it's going to have to listen. They can mutate and change quicker than we can develop new safe products. Safe products. But in general the a lot of the market is going towards wanting more non-toxic methods. It is. And do you know what? It's probably right. You know, even with the rodenticides, as I say, it's not my area. So I'm commenting as an outsider and I fully accept that.

I've, I follow a guy on, on Facebook, he does dog work, he's got a terrier, he does rat work. He's got like zillions of followers. I approve of that over pesticide use. From an environmental perspective, it has to be better for the dog to do a quick kill rather than to poison that rat, something else to feed on it and to continue that up the chain. We know how many owls we we've lost over the last decade. They know they're finding rodenticide in their in their poo. Yeah. The the, it's a that that studies a bit.

It's a bit of a because I've never actually said it's killed the owls. They've said they've found trace elements. They've never been able. To no, they haven't. I accept that completely. But we all understand the food chain and we learned that at school. You know, it's the same with garden pests. You know, we use pesticides in the garden that reduces the amount of insects, which reduces the amount of birds and so on and so. Oh yeah, I. Agree. People say, oh, there's no insects anymore. No, because you've got 20 cans of whatever chemical in your shed that you're spraying all over your garden.

No, you haven't got birds in your garden anymore because you've got no insects. Because not last year it was a better year for wasp, but the year before that there was no flies actually, and there was no wasp because there were no flies. Because eat them. There you go. See, we have to be well. What was flies? I'm just saying they were in very short supplies that year. Yeah, I understand. It's just one of those things you we're just going to have to. We, we've just, I think we've just become reliant.

It's same with pharmaceuticals. If you want to go down that route, if you've got a headache, people reach straight for a paracetamol or A and other pain relief thing. Try drinking a glass of water first. You're probably dehydrated, but we all do it and it's the same. I've got flies. Well, I'm not going to try and proof my windows or put up a family, you know, curtain in the kitchen. I'm going to go and buy a can of spray. I think we're just going to have to start rethinking those approaches. Yeah, Jason says dogs do have the limitation.

He's right. They are not the answer. I haven't seen a dog go in a cavity wall yet very well, but but they have benefits. Like I've got a friend who I speak to a lot. He's been on the podcast, Sam Tricky and he he uses dogs and he said the amount of rats I've been able to get, I wouldn't wouldn't be possible with that with just bait alone. So there are benefits. Debate about, oh, you know, the dogs get injured or it wasn't a quick kill. Well, redenticides, not a quick kill.

No, he's just adding to the debate. He's not arguing with it, you know. I'm not, I mean, like, I have no vested interest in this. I just think, you know, realistically, if I was choosing for pest control at my home because we have two dogs and earlier on we had small children, I'd probably choose a guy with a terrier over. I mean, look, we did have rats here many years ago when we first moved in. The property was already in festive with rats. It's terrific. We had no carpet down and I could hear them under the floorboards at night.

I mean, just awful. So we called the council. The guy came round, he chucked, I kid you not, he chucked a handful of something under the extension and under the floorboards. And he gave my husband a carrier bag full of identicide and said just do that whenever you need to. That's the way it used to be with the councils, but not not many councils have pest control anymore. No, my council doesn't do bed bugs at all. A lot of them don't do pest control, full stop. A lot of them don't. They're all contracted out now.

They're all contracted out, which, you know, councils haven't got the monies anymore, have they? So. Well, there's, there's some, you know, Arab's law that the mould. Yeah. Well, it's, yeah, there's a few things changing from what I've read that as of October 2026 in social housing, they have to do something about mount mice and rat infestations. So I don't, I don't know, don't quote me on it, but I've read, I've read it in a couple of magazines. I don't know the insurance and outs of it, but that's that's what was said.

I know my council still does rats and I know my council still does Wasps, but outside of that I wouldn't have any idea. And I know they don't do bed bugs. It's on their website. Yeah, because they know the headache it will give them and the minefield it would be called, of course, for them. It's hard in social housing, you know, close up housing, dense housing, poverty housing. And I live in a council house myself, so I'm not dissing anybody that lives in in social housing at all. But the truth.

I'm lucky I have a house but it's a terraced house and when my neighbours threw 2 beds out in their front garden I was like a flipping meerkat up at my front window. Anyway it was fine. I think they just got new beds but you know that's reality. But if you live in a tower block, well those they get infested with bedbugs. I I would not want to be the landlord or the pest controller on that job. No, no, I definitely agree with you. They were paying. Is there any other mix you want? It's a bust, or I think you've covered a lot of them and you.

Pretty much sure. I mean, just the just the fact that if you've, if you think you've had them for three months because you've had these skin reactions for three months, you even as an amateur, you will be able to find the signs if you look in the right places. So that back of the headboard, taking apart a wooden bed, flipping your divan upside down or your box frame or you know, the base, you after three months of breeding of egg laying of shed skins, you're on your what? By three months you're on your third, possibly entering your 4th generation.

You're going to find signs. That's about it really. And just one more plug for my 3 golden rules. Don't use any over the counter sprays or Fogger bombs. Don't move anything out of infested rooms unless it's thoroughly sealed, and don't abandoned infested rooms. Yeah, thanks. I'll tell you what, it's been a very good show. I've learned. I've learned a lot. Fantastic. Hope everyone's enjoyed it. Yeah, I've really enjoyed it. So if you are with the British past register people give me a chance though I'll have a look at the.

You probably get 1.5 points, so I'll have a look at what it comes up with. Your code will be 1111. Do you know I should be able to remember that? Yeah, well, I make them, they're random. But what what will happen is it's like 4 codes put down, all made-up and that's the correct answer, right? You know. But if anyone who wants to go through last year is on the British press register, they've got to do quizzes on the actual questions they have. But at least you've got to show some verification. But they've listened to it.

Yeah. I didn't have any last year. It was me approving them and I wasn't sure a lot of the times if people had actually watched it. I couldn't verify. But now it's all been sorted. There's any way I'm doing it. It is. Yeah. Because. Otherwise. You know, everyone, Oh, oh, I I can actually make questions on the whole podcast, but I don't, you know, do last year, like I used ChatGPT with all the questions and to do it all. And I can assure you, making 47 quizzes, 46 quizzes was not yeah, it would took me a long time.

Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't need to do it again now it's all done. But thanks for coming on. It was really good and I think you've done really well. I did. Thank. You've now been on a pest control industry podcast you have, as well as your own live streams you keep doing. They're getting quite popular. They are. Yeah, and I didn't advertise the last one properly. I forgot to actually put it in the group. So some people missed it because they didn't go to my profile. So just I'm learning all the time.

I told you before, I'm not techie at all. Oh, no, it's, it's, I'll be honest, Facebook don't make everything easy. They really don't. No. Yeah. No, they don't. They don't. It's like what happens with this podcast on Facebook. It's it's podcast will go just stay up for a month, get all the views, etcetera. Then they'll take it down. I will have to re upload the whole video and then it stays up forever. So if it's live they take it down and make you re upload it. Saving storage space apparently. Right, thank you.

You've just explained something that happened with the the one that I did a month ago at the beginning of January. Yeah, I didn't realise. I'll upload it again. 30 days it takes 30 days of the live so take it down and their reason was they want to save on storage space but most people will just re upload it and then it stays there forever. OK, it does. Thanks for that. It does. That was probably what happened then. It was. Yeah, that. Makes sense. Have you got the said video? I have. I downloaded them because I shared it to other platforms.

Oh that's good then yes just re upload it because that's what happened. Have you got anyone you would like to see on the podcast then? Well, I think we should definitely get Louis on. He's he is a mind of knowledge. Christopher Venables. Interesting man. He's been on. There you go. Yeah. He's a very interesting man. No, and I can't think of anybody off the top of my head, but it's always, I love to hear other people's perspectives. And as I say, I had some quite rigid views when I when I came in, you know, heat treatment does work well actually I've learnt it can if it's done well, you know.

So I'm becoming a lot more open minded. For me it's just about being, being moral about it. And I don't want to sound really priggish because I'm not, but don't take the pee out of people when people are desperate, don't make their situation worse. And however you do the job, just do it right. I fully agree with you. Because there's a lot of people take advantage of people because not everyone with a trade body, you'll find a lot of ones that ain't the trade bodies. They're the ones that may take advantage.

Yeah, because we're trade. Bodies, they're upholding them. They then they, they've got no, I mean, we don't fear our governing bodies, but. Trade bodies are not covering. We will great bodies. Yeah. Just make sure you call trade bodies and not. Governing, I did. I said trade bodies very carefully. Thank you very much. Anyway. I'll be joining you this year anyway. Oh yeah, if you let me. If you let. Me anyone can join the MPTA? Yeah, no, I'm. Definitely if they want, if they want to. But yeah, thanks for coming on.

And if you stay online for me, I'll just shut the stream down. So thanks everyone. And next week, let's have a look. Let's have a look who's on. It's going to be your year, and then next week that'll be episode 52, One whole year. Yeah, it'll be your Billy, Billy McPherson on next week. I have. I'll just reach out to him and check he's still coming on. But yeah, it might. No, it was in January. I started. I see what happened was the first episode wasn't actually a guess. It was myself talking about the podcast starting.

But I'll have to have because I've had my LinkedIn birthday on. That's perspective. So it was a week or two ago. It was, but yeah, thanks for coming on. I'll just end the stream, but thanks for all the inputs on Louis and everyone else that commented. Thanks for popping in and I'll see you all soon.

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