Pest Perspectives EP 55: Sales, AI & New Revenue Streams – Round Table Discussion - Pest Perspectives

Hello and welcome to best perspectives episode 55

Perspectives is a podcast that aims to educate and entertain

the pest management industry and you can earn CPD through basis

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once I submit I'll get I'll get the codes out to everyone.

But if you're part of the British Press Register or BPCAS

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So this week I'm doing like a kind of round table kind of pest

control discussions. So this could go.

We've mentioned topics that are in advertising it, but I'll be

honest, it could go. It could go anyway it could

especially with the I've got on These are two people I speak to

on the regular. This is.

So how are you both doing? Very.

Good. Thank you yourself.

Yeah. All right, All right.

OK. Cheers.

That's a fair few number now, isn't it?

With the podcast, when you said that number, that's a lot you've

done, isn't it? Yeah, 55, considering Kieran was

#2 Kieran came back on again later in the year for a crew

episode. They've now taken the title.

You've been on the most times. The third time you have.

You have. Well, Adam Holt.

Yeah, Adam Holt won't be too happy.

But like, they'd come back on the time.

Well, I have to see if just need to, but.

But yeah, what do you want to start off with then?

Chatting about, I hear you went on an insect, an insect course

today with the MPs. Yeah.

Is that right, Kieran? Yeah, I did.

Went up to the, went up to Bristol, up to the golf course

and yeah, did a refresher on in insects.

Mark Wendman took the course. It was very, very good.

A few other techs in there as well.

Chris Forest of Dean Pest Control.

And of course, his boss is also on the UK committee for that

area in Wales. And also Mark and Joe, Mark and

Joe from PCM Pest Control Services, Hereford and

Worcester, they were in there. So yeah, it was a good, it was a

good time actually. It was a good refresher.

Ready for the new season and six CPD points.

It's all about the CPD, you see. It's all about the CPD.

He's got some logged apparently basis of got some of his points

logged now, Sam. Well, they actually did it, did

they? Are they?

She's all right. Then.

I've got 17. Yeah.

Oh. That's right.

How many? How many you waiting for?

About 46 this. Is about right.

Yeah, Happy days. Nice son, I said to Sam, when

when you were doing that metre, I said you do know that he's

literally waited for the WRM courses to now and he's just

nailed through them all. He's waited for the build up.

Yeah. It's what he's done, yeah.

Yeah. There's some good courses on

that though. There is there.

Is I've done a few now. So yeah, they're good.

They are good on there actually, aren't they?

Yeah, that's a really, really good thing.

You know, a freebie from the MPTA Koch assessments as well.

Brilliant. Andy is is Andy looking for all

of that? And that if you need something

you can look for, and even if you've got exactly what you

want, it gives you a fair idea, doesn't it?

Yeah, but you could, yeah, but you could e-mail them, say, did

you watch the video on it, which you get 1.1 point for?

And she says if there's anything else, please e-mail me, I can

get this sorted for you. Oh.

Really. That's right then.

She's at it now. Hold on.

Yeah, hold on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Someone there's someone in chat here.

I don't know who you are, but thanks for popping in.

Hi guys. Kieran and Sam Woody's pest

control in all. Right what?

Woody Woody's pest control. Woody, Hi Woody, How are we

doing buddy? Hope you're doing well.

What are we specialised in? I'm kind of I've got a few

contracts, I've got a few commercials and domestics, but

mainly do domestic work, drain work, bird proofing and lots of

filling in holes and proofing around everywhere I go.

Where? Are you?

We're mainly. Contract based agricultural

wildlife management do a lot of farms, a lot of commercial

sites. So yeah, mainly rodent, but we

do moles and obviously other wildlife as well.

Do a do a bit of domestic few Wasps nests that sort of thing.

But that's the main, the main focus is contracts really and

obviously the dogs and all that sort of side of that.

Nice. I might as well I'm not used to

this because I'm not the one asking questions.

So I'm from Oakland pest control, you know it says pest

perspectives. We mainly I'll be honest the

majority of our business is domestic.

We do have commercial side. We will, we will work with

commercial and we are getting into drains doing like drain

inspections from to define rodent ingress.

That's a new Ave. So I wouldn't say I specialised

in it yet, Kieran, but I'm learning it.

I am. I'm pretty, you know, it's all

part of it though, isn't it? It's all part of the learning.

You know, you, you do it and then learn as you go along.

But it it adds a new Ave to because a lot, I'll be honest, a

lot because a lot of it is brought on by as well.

Is there's a lot of customers. You'll say you need a drain

drain survey and you'll tell them and tell them they won't

get it done. They won't bother.

So we've bought by, although it's not what you would call a

full drain survey as such, but like it will find we can find

ingress points. And if it really does need a

proper, proper, you know, big one, then we can recommend the

relevant company that can do the proper trains, full surveys such

and the the you know, the full analysis Walmart, you know, you

get everything included, but it's just an Ave because a lot

of people's and then if you go, well, I could do it for you,

then they might say yes, because a lot of them you recommend it

and they never get it done by my experience anyway so far, a lot

of them just say, yeah, yeah, yeah, they never do.

It's OK if you're like Kieran who's got someone that can come

and do it. Like if you they'll come and do

it and they're going to come tomorrow and do it if you want

it. But like, unless you've got

someone that you can rely on, you're right.

You need to almost have that as an add on to, to have it there

in front of them, don't you? Otherwise they'll just go, yeah.

And then it never gets done, does it?

Well, it does. You're right, because I've

obviously the way I'm advertising at the minute, I'm

about to get it on rate because I've got, we've got a Radio One

for plays about four or five times a day.

I'm about to get a new one that includes we do it as well just

to try and get the word out there a little bit, little bit

more. But do you?

Get to I never thought about that.

Is that is that quite a good idea for advertisement?

So what we see is this, right? I can't quantify it as such

because there's a thing called a subliminal for say you, you

don't work like that anymore. But say you worked in a factory

or something, or you have a particular radio station on all

day and suddenly you've been hearing this advert on all day

and some and conversation comes up and they go, I need a pest

controller. And suddenly they go, I've got

oaken pest controller. I've heard an advert, right?

And then you go and search for it on the Internet usually.

So it's kind of, it's hard because we do put a code on

there, like for elderly people get a discount.

But I'll be honest, one person has only ever said that they

want your discount. They don't offer.

I might, I might take it off the advert because no, in the whole

time it's been there, no one's ever said it.

No, it's it's standard like passive, passive advertising.

That's it, passive. Yeah, this this year I'm

sponsoring something called Wimplefest, which is just

basically a lot of people get together and get drunk.

And I'm sponsoring my logo on the reusable pickups.

So there's no phone number, there's no nothing.

It's just there's my logo. Everyone can get drunk, see,

it's pest control and it's just nice and passive.

And when somebody like you say, thinks, oh, I need pest control,

they hear your, your Jingle, you know, ringing in the rears or

open pest control or do whatever.

They see my logo and. Yeah.

And and then they pull it up in the memory and, and come search

for us, don't they? Yeah.

It's true. Evening, Jason from Ash Pest

Control. Thanks for popping in.

Yeah, we see it as it is advertising.

We see it as because it's a community radio station.

It's not like we used to have one, but they sold it on.

But we see it as a community thing.

But obviously it's still advertising.

It still costs money. It does.

But we advertising wise wise, we also have got, we've got like a

bypass in Oakham where you can have boards up through the

Oakham in bloom and they've got like got a spit, really nice

Spitfire there. And that's where we advertise.

We've got two boards there and potentially thousands of people

see it each day they do. So there's that as well.

Hugh, Hugh Radford Franks for popping in.

Also we sponsor a Cricket Club, Barnett Cricket Club.

It's just a board, one of the boards they've got because we've

got a contract with a guy who we've had, we've had a contract

with him for years and he just said one day, do you want to

sponsor the Cricket Club? I played for that was it?

So not a big amount of money, but you never know, do you?

Well, we've got, we've got a bit of PR out of it photo with him

and that I don't know if it ever got into the paper.

I don't. But yeah, I mean my eyes closed

because I was like, I was like, I've still, I've got to put it

up. This is, you know.

I think I've seen that. I think, I think I've seen that

one. I think, yeah, they've just from

Facebook. That was a good one, that yeah.

They've just revamped it. I have yeah, because it cost.

It's a properly skilled bloke that does it like he's he's

actually skilled. He actually the the bits of of

wood. I can't I'm butchering it.

But it he's hand done it the whole thing.

And when he and then he I didn't know this.

When he puts it up, he's he also entwines it onto the onto the

pole. So it's it's stuck on.

So someone can't just go and take it away.

Yeah, but I but I didn't know that.

Unfortunately, yeah. So what's what pest have you

mainly been doing today then, Sam?

Rats all day today. Yeah, rats all day.

So, yeah, solid, solid on the rats.

Not even any moist, just solid, solid rats.

Just you've, you've been on the course today.

What about yourself, Sean? Today, just where are we?

Where are you? There we go today.

Just rats, really. Yeah, not a lot, but yeah, rats.

But I'll be honest, the vast majority of our business is mice

and rats. And then the only insect that

dominates the business is the Wasps as well.

But we do do everything everyone else does bed bugs, etcetera,

but but they're very minute part of the business.

We don't seem to be able to attract people or don't want it

or I don't know if someone's charging next to nothing.

I don't, I don't know. I'd done my first Washington

yesterday. You sent me something, didn't

you? Was it you?

No. No, no.

But no, I did. I did my first wasp nest

yesterday. Some scaffolders were taking the

roof off and they found the wasp nest and they wouldn't go in it.

And I'm trying to tell them over the phone that it oh.

It was dead. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

And they point blank refused to carry on working they down too.

So I flew on over there and I must have been about two years

old. It just I just blew on it and it

just crumbled anything. Oh well, thanks very much.

So in the bag, it was easy all right.

It's the fear factor though, isn't it?

It's the fear. It is the fear factor.

It's difficult sometimes yourself to think, hold on a

minute, you'll be fine. But you've got to sort of look

at it, that they're terrified, aren't they?

Some people, So yeah. They were certainly terrified.

They phoned the boss and the boss was coming back and like

no, no, they can't come in. It's not.

We're not insured for it. And brilliant, brilliant.

He's saying he's seen the first Queens out and about.

I've not seen any yet, so I. Haven't seen any.

No SO. He's.

Seen them, I wouldn't have muscled me.

Yeah. I think I saw one today

actually. I wasn't sure because it was a

distance away, but I did think I saw one today actually.

So tell you what I did see today.

Tell you what I did see today. One thing I've never ever seen,

and you probably both laugh at me.

I was driving to a job and I actually rang my dad.

I said it's right across the room.

It's not a mouse. It's not a rat.

And he said, is it, like, long? Looks like a string.

But I said, yeah, it's a cat weasel, but I've never seen one

before. Also, I didn't actually know

what it was. I've never experienced it.

You see them all the time. I bet Sam you do.

Stones. Stones and weasels.

Yeah, we get a fair, fair few around.

Yeah, used used to be quite involved in trapping them as

well, but obviously now we've got no need to.

Unless they're nailing chickens, but that's only an odd call.

Well, on my course, on my course, a day, every day is a

school day. I learned that cluster flies lay

their eggs in earthworms. Now they're loving Hatch, and

they eat them from the inside out.

Yeah. Yeah, they are.

Every day is a school day. Didn't know that until the day.

It is. It is there's.

Also the green cluster flying it that I said too that they we had

a chat about it and we're in they're in market because I had

one house the other day, didn't I with both both normal

classifier and your green cluster fly in so and that was

interesting. Yeah, then he sent me a picture

saying what's this? And I go.

I have no idea. That was in the pub the other

day. You had the same, didn't you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see.

Insect course. You need to get yourself on an

insect course. That's.

The kiddie, That's the kiddie. I think the next the next MBTA

one is Danny Buckfast, so I'm guessing you're not coming to

that one. No, but Mark, I'll tell you

what, I'll tell you it might come to that.

Martin Belcher, who's on the board of me because he usually,

he usually goes to it because he, he says it's such a nice

venue. I'm not saying he, I'm not

saying he does go, but he usually that he told me that's

one he usually goes to because he likes the venue in the area.

It is a nice venue. It is a nice venue.

I'll be going, yeah. We'll be going, yeah.

Well say he's MPTA member now. It doesn't.

Cost OK, he. Gets it for free.

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

You make the most of it. Exactly.

Get that value. Get that value.

Like the value? You know what I'm like?

Yeah, I want the valley out of all of.

It every like guy that everyone's like we need to go

home and he keeps asking questions.

Shut the We want to go Oh. I like talking, you know me.

I imagine you're going. I'd imagine you.

Are you attending, Hugh? I'd imagine you're attending.

I think you went to the last 1 didn't he last year?

Yeah. He's actually the leader, you

know your UK committee, he leads it up, doesn't he?

He's the one that leads the UK committee.

He's also the vice chairman of the MPTA.

Now yes, got some important people watching the podcast at

the minute. No pressure to make sure he's

committee member is is doing the best.

But what else? But no it's yeah I'll probably

be going to NPTA Peterborough Andal that's not till like

August, September. That's not that I I have to

obviously go to this one because I was the one that campaigned

from it for it in the NPTA. So I, I, I, I, I couldn't go

Nottingham because I went, I went to Davy Brown's course in

Burton on train, which I, I will tell you was a very good, very

good podcast. I learned a lot.

I was the only one taking tonnes of notes and the, and the main

one, the main thing he kept saying was sure, remember this,

he said a lazy builder. He kept saying it every so often

because it was like some of the things happen with drains or

they get moved, etcetera, and lazy builder bring it up.

But yeah, it was, it was very insightful.

That's what that's what he's made.

That's the word of the that was the word of the day, the saying

of the day. That's what he kept saying.

But no, it was an insightful course.

It was. It's worth doing if anyone wants

to learn about how you don't even have to have a camera and

you want just an insight into how they leave the solar system.

It's just insight and you realise how many.

See, I thought drains, drainage was a massively regulated

industry, but not According to him.

He said it's just just like pest control.

There wasn't many qualifications or there's not that there's not

that much to it. He said, comparing.

You'd. You'd think, though, it would

be. But obviously if, if you're

digging down to a drain, you've got to have approval and all

that stuff. But generally you're right,

because I, I looked into it, I'm with Bradshaw and Bennett.

They include drainage in the, they include it as a standard.

They do. So are you with them, Kieran, or

are you with someone else? I'm with someone else.

I'm with someone else. Oh, I can't remember the name

off right at this moment in time.

I'm sure you can't leave. Bradshaw and Bennett.

Yeah, I'll make sure you've got, yeah, make sure you've got legal

and legal indemnity with it because a lot of companies, I'm

not naming any names, but there was a prominent name within the

industry that everyone thought they had legal indemnity and it

didn't. So, well, it's always worth

checking it's on there. Yes, yeah, I will check that

one. Yeah, so, but he's.

But he said, though, the gift that keeps, the gift that keeps

giving builders, that's also the same for a bird feeder.

The gift that keeps giving, Yeah.

Bird feeders are, aren't they 100%?

And the best thing? You need to say get rid of them

and then they about six months later you go back to the same

place and they put them all back.

It's nice. Well, I have a job a few years

ago where I knew this lady that Lady was doing.

I knew what she was doing, but it it wasn't it was in like a

shed where elderly people live. I knew what she was doing.

She was taking them down when I was coming and putting them back

up after then before then before, before, before I would

come she. And So what I did one day, so

I'll, I'll pop I picked the head around the corner and that's

what she did because they were up.

And in the end, I said, so I think we should pack this job up

because you like feeding the birds and this isn't going to

help. So he agreed in the end.

But yeah, sorry, she's corrected me.

It's called professional indemnity.

There we go. Correction.

Thanks. But now what did it?

But I've I've got a lady. Yeah, I've got a lady.

She, bless her, she's like, I went there.

She's got rats in the garden and she's like, I feed the birds.

I will always feed the birds. I know what you're going to say,

but I will not stop feeding the birds.

So every six to eight weeks I go around there and I shoot her

rats and leave about two that she likes.

She likes to leave about two and then I leave 6 to 8 weeks later,

I'll go back and do the same thing.

But hey, what can you do? Exactly.

So I reckon when you talk about the main thing, that was

actually the topic, one of the topics that we first talked

about, what should be in a pest control folder, and there's the

man, Sam. We all know Sam.

He's the paperwork man. He really is.

Yeah, that was that. Was me.

Just the king of Devon. Yeah, no.

Yeah, we'll be off. We'll come back in half an hour,

buddy. Yeah, yeah.

Cheers. Thank you.

No pressure, no site folders then.

So you're going to do the mixture in there.

You've got your paper and you've got your software folders.

Now what you. Have, yeah.

Yeah, I mean soft. I think software for site

folders software is absolutely awesome.

Now, you know, it's, it saves a lot of messing about in writing

and you can update at home whenever you want.

You can change everything. And it is, you know, for us

personally, we've changed over now and yeah, it has, it has

changed the business, you know. I could imagine, because I

remember when you were talking about, you were talking about it

for quite a while and you were like, yeah.

And then when you made that switch, you were like, Oh, my

life's so much easier. Yeah, I should have done it

years ago, years ago. It's just, yeah, just the

thought, the thought of. Taking a paper for John Mooney's

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Best software? British.

I'll be honest for you, they see I've got 1 quarterly and I said

to our last visit, can we move this over to digital.

Oh, but the AEA chair was decided that they accept

digital, You'd still print them off.

And she was like, she was asking, he's asked the chef, he

wants pay, she wants paper. All right, it was painful

writing, but right now, thinking I don't like doing this, it's

not, there's only one. So I'll go there every three

months. Sorry.

It's not too bad. I would charge extra.

Now if someone wants it's paper, I would charge extra.

I think because it's just, it doesn't, it doesn't fit in with

everything's on the software, it all works, it all seems

together. It does, but you can.

You can. Like the vast majority.

When we rolled it out, we had just told everyone, yeah, and to

be fair, and we just said if you want to print it out, you can.

Yeah, that's all I say. Yeah, Yeah.

But you do get. Yeah.

Sorry, Karen. If you, if you send do it all

electronic, which is fine, but let's say it's in the kitchen.

Let's say you know on site you're using rodenticide or you

you've done a chemical treatment of some description.

Now to my mind, you need all that member of staff to be able

to get your folder if something goes wrong, get the KOSH

assessment. Boom, there it is.

Everything's done. If it's online, how do they get

that? We tell them to we, well, we

tell them because you get a portal on the one I'm on, you

can actually tell them to make a make a folder with all the

documents in so you don't have to go online.

It's just on the computer. Literally click on the icon on

the computer. That's what I get them to.

Do that's not going to happen. A lot of places do no care and

you'll be surprised. Yeah.

Fair enough. Yeah, you have to force on your

farmers, you have to force them. You have to say look when your

audit day because I had it a few times.

Hello red tractors here. How do we log on?

And you're like, well, I shown you 3 times, you know.

So now I always make sure they've got their icon on the

computers. Like I say, you need to have it

on there and then as soon as they click on, they're all all

ready to go. Anyone can access it, job done.

And it. Yeah, it is.

It does save a lot of messing about to be honest.

But I do. I get your point exactly.

Especially if you've got someone that doesn't know how to use a

computer or is struggling, then it is there I suppose in paper.

I'm just, I'm just kind of like, for instance, you're in a pub,

right? The dog's been drinking beer

because that's what you do when you take a dog into a pub, goes

outside, rips over the box, eats a whole bunch of redenside right

now that cus the dog owner goes up to the barman and goes, my

dog has just eaten that rat poison.

Does that barman have access to the portal instantly like that?

Or does he just go behind the bar or be in the kitchen?

Boom, there's a folder that's that's not right.

I think he, I think he would because he would just go

straight onto the computer or even on their phones.

They could have it straight on the phone, straight on the.

Computer bam I think, I think with Sean software you can do QR

codes and then he's not huge. Just put you could just put AQR

code for the staff on the wall for them to access it straight

away. My software I use doesn't,

doesn't have AQR code, but never had that issue.

But they've they've always got access to it.

All they've got to do is go into the read and click the link.

A lot of them just make a make a, a folder.

They do because I was because the biggest thing my dad was

hesitant. My, my, my dad was very

hesitant. No, was give us our emails and

he was shocked. People handing over all this and

yeah, yeah, all good. And what we did say was saving

the world. Yeah, I think not printing the

paper, all the writing, all the paper, all of the printing.

And I look back now and I think. Trying to be more.

We're trying to be more sustainable, yeah.

There's no you can't endeavour. I can't.

Say that? No.

To be fair, you can't say that with digital systems.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

But I do understand your paper. No, I don't.

I. Have paper at the moment.

Yeah, I do. I do see.

I do get your point though. I do think that in some

situations, especially having some sort of paper definitely is

is needed, still isn't. It I know what I know why I know

why Kieran's bringing this up. This was talked about when we I

wasn't with Kieran on this course, but we had the same

trainer, Debbie Wilson and someone mentioned digital

paperwork and that is it I've. And that is what she said.

What if something happens and they need it there and then that

a second. And that's what she said.

Because at the time when I did that I was, I was very much

against digital. We were paper only.

I was now I can't, I think obviously we write invoices out

on paper as well for domestic, but if they pay before and the

commercial goes through the software, but it doesn't all go

through that. But I, I do get it here.

And it also, that's a big, it's also a big cost saving for you

because it will cost quite, I believe it's a money, I think

it's well spent. But from your perspective, you'd

probably think, ah, that's quite a big chunk of money each year,

especially if you're having to go to 0 too.

Not just that, you know, this, this year I, my New Year's

resolution for the business is reduced by half the advertising

and to go digital, you know, I've seen Sam do it.

I've seen him beginning struggling with it and then like

now it's boom, stuck with it. Now he's on it.

And you know, and yeah, that is amazing.

I'm still at the paper stage, but to start with, I'm about to

go back registered next month. So I am going through 0 at the

minute. So I'm going to get all my

accounts sorted, get that up and running.

And then so by mid year I will be then going into the PES

software and and you know, and then I can look back on this and

go, yeah, what was I thinking? Paper nightmare.

But I do still think somebody should have access to it.

At the moment, I wouldn't do some of the science.

Yeah, I, I, I wouldn't be able to do some of the sites that I

do without without that software.

And that that's honestly, I just couldn't I couldn't keep up with

the amount of paperwork they need for some of these sites and

the amount of bait boxes and changes.

And without being able to go on maps and just move it all about

easily and write it all in there and have everything logged and

be able to click on it and have it all when I'm sat here right

now, I can just mess about with it.

And for me, that was the massive, the thought of having

to do some of the sites we've taken on since on paper, I

would, I just wouldn't do them. I just, I would not do them.

But that software allows us to be able to do it.

But I think, I think, I think you're going to really, I think

you'll enjoy it. I think it'll be good.

But I still agree that, yeah, some places you need that bit of

paper, don't you? What?

What? Jason's just said no.

I kind of agree. If there was an emergency, they

literally would just ring you up.

We need access to this. They'd literally ring you

straight away. They would as well.

But I I do get it because that's what I do remember thinking

about. That's exactly what Debbie said.

What if, what if and that time I was pro paper.

I was at the time I messaged at one at some point and says, you

know, I told you I was proper, but that's it.

I said, well now digital, well done.

She said, no, it's good. It's.

Good. So what are we saying then for

the site folders then, So digital or folders, we're still

going to have the same information in them and we so

Kieran mentioned also assessments.

So that's a very important thing in there if in that situation.

So yeah, cost assessments are definitely anything else.

Yeah, Eras and Rams. Yeah, yeah, I would say.

Cost assessments, yeah, yeah, it's.

PR as yeah. Definitely.

Treatment report. Treatment reports, obviously.

Yeah. If we start going into Sam's

world, it it gets a lot more paperwork than us.

Sometimes he's laughing. It's on.

Promise sometimes, but no, I think, I think definitely.

We're more domestic. Yeah, liability insurance, we

actually put our ID. I put my qualifications in.

Now I put my crew certificate in as well.

I don't think, I don't know if you have to put all this in, but

I do. Obviously there's obviously you

can put your data sheets in. You can obviously you're

supposed to put that in anyway, but digit digitally we can.

When we first started with this software, you didn't have the

ability to do it properly, but now they've got the ability to

do it. You've got to have the top tier.

But no, it's all in there. It is.

What else? What I think, what else we put

in there? So the MPT.

Slavery policy. Yeah, yeah, anti slavery policy,

yeah, that's, that's the Kitty. But they they I got pulled up on

that. I got pulled up on that one.

So I've got one in there now. Yeah.

I I get asked for my CPD like they audited audits.

When they audit some of the sites I do, they want to see how

many CPD I've done so far at whatever.

That's interesting that never been asked for that.

Really. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely and. How many have you got so far,

Sam? Well, not 47, but I've, I'm, I'm

getting up there. I've, I've got a lot of podcasts

in New Zealand at the moment, so I've got that.

I'm not quite beat 47 yet. I have to buy breakfast, didn't

I? I got 28, yeah.

No, I have to buy breakfast. Site map, that's correct.

Obviously a site map is actually a bait map really, you know it's

the same thing if you if you bait on your level though Sam,

you have to go a bit deeper than that.

You do you know, because that's where the software.

Comes in. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, but if you if you say it

here, they don't put any cost assessments or Rams or data

sheets in in their folders. They don't.

I normally do cost manufactured data sheets and all the, all the

Rams in there as well, depending on what, what, what we're doing.

So we'd have, if we were going shooting there would be a, a

separate RAM for that and then dog work and then our normal

day-to-day routine. So whatever activity we're

doing, we'll add a new risk assessment and a method

statement into that for whatever we're doing.

And on some of the sites, we make sure that that's very site

specific. And even like put in the log

number from like when we run the police to let them know we're

shooting, that will also go in. So it can all be traced so

there's no incidences so. That's true also Also he's

saying obviously the data sheets basically mean nothing to the

client. If they looked at them and they

wouldn't understand them, which I agree, they wouldn't, they

wouldn't know. No, I think, I think yeah, yeah,

they do look for them though. I mean, some of the some of the

some of the farms, they look for them if they they want, they

want them in there for their tick box, some of the auditors,

but. I'll, I'll tell you something

about a lot of these auditors that are Reg tractor places like

that. You need to go and find the

actual spec or Red Tractor because on some auditors not

saying all they ask for more than they're actually entitled

to, they do. Oh, 100 percent, 100% I'd agree.

But I'd say maybe I mean red tractors, generally they're not

too bad. Some of the line code can be a

bit difficult sometimes. But I think the one thing I find

is you almost want to try and go above whatever standards they're

trying to set you so that when it does come into it, they're

ticking boxes and they're going to find something because they

always do. But it's going to be, I had one

the other day. This is a good one to add in

there that I didn't have. I didn't have the crew best code

of practise in the site folder. Have I heard of that?

Yeah, and the this, you know you've done well.

When the line code audit went through, they were absolutely

chuffed with everything. But she's demanded on the spot

that my client had a crew. The crew code of best practise

in the folder I think. It's.

Yeah, but luckily because I'm on on digital, I could literally

quickly get on here, download a crew, best practise, add it into

the site folder, bam, there you go.

Happy days. But that it, it's just, it's

there then for the next audit, isn't it?

So yeah. I think they're towing the line

there, you know, I think, yeah, overstepping, you said that is.

Yeah, yeah. But maybe you know you've done a

good job if they're being funny over something that isn't that

important. Yeah, I suppose.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't. Followers just tend to differ,

don't they, between people really.

There's no set rule by the Luxor side fault.

It must have this. It must have that.

But we have mentioned, sorry Jason, we have, we have

mentioned environmental risk assessments, but obviously

Kieran worded it ER, as you might have missed that a little

bit. He said it so quick.

Yeah, we both said it wrong here.

We both said that, yeah, environmental risk assessment

and then. That's not real, yeah.

Yeah. So that's very important, very

important. And that that's one of the main,

main things that we, you know, should be adding on to, you

know, updating and, you know, almost noting every visit, you

know, survey and if there's any changes to be added on to that

on especially I find on the angry side, like I'm really

always looking for any changes depending on what it is.

So obviously with your software you can show your CPD.

It gives you the ability. See with my software, the one

that don't, you're not with the British password.

Just stay here. No.

So what I do is I download my BBCACPD log out.

So every every couple of like every couple of months, I

download it and then I just add it onto my if I put it onto my

software and put it into. General, it logs it to every

single site folder for me, so I don't have to do it

individually. That's good.

Yeah. So you could same with cost

assessments. If you do a cost assessment or

you do, it just logs it onto everything depending on what

product you're using. So it does save you a fair bit

of time. But yeah, I'll put it on there

and then it logs it logs it for every single site folder to see

what CPD are done so far. So that is quite OK.

That's how you do it. And obviously obviously he was

is saying obviously with BRC etcetera, they all vary on what

they want. Yeah, yeah.

Well, it depends on who the auditor is, doesn't it?

Wait till I turn up as your auditor.

Yeah, difficult 1 to get right. Yeah, yeah, they're, they're

quite persistent as well. The line code are really if they

they'll sit there and they want it now.

It's all not even saying, Oh, I'll check it once you, you

know, later on tomorrow. They want it today.

Now you're like, OK, right? That's fine.

Power mad mate, obviously. Yeah, yeah.

Wow. It doesn't it it, I always look

at it as it's if it gets me more work.

If you can, if you get the paperwork right, it gives you

more work. So it's actually a benefit.

The harder they are on the site, the more they need me to get it

right. So it makes you, you know, more

important in that system. So it's a.

Win. It's a win.

It it does know you're right. Yeah, you are.

But some of the stuff you've mentioned I didn't the the the

the crew though the the crew kind of the colder I was.

Yeah, I was a bit like, come on, you could just Google it.

It's like, yeah, but there. We go.

Yeah, isn't that cold folders now?

So it's. There, you know that client's

never going to read that. You know it.

I want a farm. I've got time to read that.

I looked at what they were doing before I took over the site and

they, yeah, they weren't read it.

They're not ever going to read that, but it's in there and it's

ready to go. So they would.

Don't get me wrong, they were still doing a good, good job

before I got there. But I'm just saying that, yeah,

that it's amazing how the step when you take on a site from

what they were doing, their paperwork was good, but suddenly

you've gone like next level with it and then the order to want

next level again. So it's interesting how they

they act really. But it's it drives you forward

and there's a good thing, I think.

It does. I mean, I do a task site and

I'll be honest, they don't ask me.

I've passed all of them. They don't really ask me for

much, just the bog standard stuff.

Bog standard stuff. The only reason red tracks are.

Red tracks if you don't get any. Yeah, but I don't even put half

as much stuff as you do in and just what I say etcetera and

always mention clear the grain up.

But as we all know, that never happens, you know, because they

literally, they literally get me in because they got us in

because they were told they had to have professional pest

controls and I think it was because the paperwork was

probably bad. They said, oh, we've only got

you in because we were told we have to have you the tick box

for them. It is.

But you know. We're going to look.

At yeah, it varies on every. Site No.

You go, Karen. You go Karen.

I could talk for England, you know, man.

Oh, just saying it it varies doesn't it from site to site

you. Know you've got.

Your red tractors and you've got your line codes and and you know

line code is is up there and above and beyond.

I can't be honest. Though, like for the General

General Cafe. What's that, Sean?

Sorry I can't be honest like we're task.

It was a weird one because when I read their spec I was like why

the hell are they asking for this?

And they asked for RSPH Level 3 Level 3 and I thought what the

fuck are they asking that for? So I sent the spec to a couple

of people that examined sites because they're talking crap.

So I just sent in my level 2. Let's let's clarify it.

My RSPH level 2 awarding pest management and they accepted it,

but I just can't understand why Level 3 was in there.

I can't no idea if that appeared.

It was weird, but they they, they still accepted it.

But yet it was in there. I I wasn't going to put this by

this contract. I wouldn't have gone down to

Level 3 for the contract. I wouldn't have.

Yeah, it's got to make it worth it, isn't?

It. Oh yeah.

What were you saying, Karen? Sorry.

Absolutely. Sorry, Carry.

On no, I I was just saying that, you know, it varies from site to

site on what people people want and what you know, And then if

they don't know what they want is what you supply, you know,

like today doing during the course, the MPTA insect course,

we broached it and a lot of people are like, put the minimum

in people don't want monster amounts.

So that was that was everyone else's thoughts on site folders

put minimal. I presume.

No, I won't talk. I bet you they were talking

about the general ones. I bet you if if you turn around

and said to Mark Wendman, what about BLC?

Except you'd say, well, yeah, do do more.

They probably, they probably would have agreed, but I bet

they were. What about general contracts?

Probably, yeah. Yeah, possibly, possibly.

One of our treatment reports I know like so I sent off a

treatment report yesterday and I know they'll probably be at

least four to five people will read that and then on they

obviously we all know that a lot of people don't bother, but I

know that on those sites there will be the manager, there will

probably be the owner, there will be the internal auditor and

they'll all read that treatment report and then you'll have the

auditor. So it will all be, it will all

be. And because that gets emailed

and with the pest software, you can put like a parent client.

So say. So on these sites, the internal

auditor, she has all of the sites in one like so she has all

of the the sites in the company under her.

So she can log into any site she wants at any time and see what's

going on. And so she'll read all of them.

And then so there's a lot of people all reading that one

report. So, yeah.

And there's no pressure, pressure there.

And I know that the the big boss, he loves them.

So he always reads them. And I think there's another, his

son, I think he reads them as well.

So you're looking at a lot of people sometimes reading Sam's

dyslexic treatment reports. So here's a question, Here's a

question for you then I just saw on that point you've said, do

you use AOI to help you generate the reports on what you want to

say? So no, I don't.

I will on a lot of our normal dairy farm contracts.

There's there's Sean's software's brilliant because

it's got phrases. So I'll write a load of phrases

for my agricultural work that I can click in, which saves me

time during the day adding in roughly what I've done.

And then I'll handwrite some of it at like in between.

And it is brilliant on some of those sites because everyone's

reading it all the time. I handwrite, I, I type all of

them individually, all fresh, all new, so that when they're

reading, they're not all the same, if that makes sense.

I don't. Want to So what?

So what you could do and what you can do if you use ChatGPT,

you can. You could still do that.

You can get it in your own tone so you could talk to your phone

and exactly what you want and it will put it on the screen for

you and it it will you've got to get your nuances right, but it

will look like it's from you, you see and copy and paste it

in. That's crazy.

You, you told me it was you that told me about that because.

We time our treatment reports for them on some of those sites

and normal and normal treatment report will take me 45 minutes

to an hour sometimes depending on how much we've done and how

much detail there is on it. So that's.

What he told me, he said you can talk to it and it comes out and

it's a good tip, to be honest. I know everyone's afraid of AI,

but AI can make our paperwork better, make it's made my

paperwork better. I'm going to show you.

Is that what he asked? So that was just chat chat.

ChatGPT. Yeah, I'll have a look at that

and see see what we can do then. So what?

You just you just. Go the the only thing.

But I do pay for ChatGPT £20 a month for I pay for that, but I

don't you might get away with using the free one.

It's so useful for other stuff that you need to know about.

Obviously do proofread it read through it to make sure it's

right. It sounds, you know, it does

make mistakes sometimes, but generally I use that now and I

sound far more professional than I ever have done that's.

Good, yeah, that's, you know, any tip trick tricks or tips,

isn't it? So no, that's that's happy,

happy days. So we're going to look in into

like maps and stuff like that. What what what do you think we

should have in maps? Because I, I always remember

when when when I first started out, I've got to admit this.

This would be really interesting because I didn't have a clue.

I didn't know what apps go into site folder.

It was so difficult, isn't it? It's like you were sat there

thinking right, do I need this? Do I need that?

It's. Yeah, it's quite daunting.

Daunting 1 isn't. It oh site map there's bait

placements where your bait boxes are yeah, you don't have to be.

I know everyone on here. You know, it can be, I mean, you

guys laugh, but you can be a Google Earth view and it dotted

out. It doesn't have to be complex.

That's exactly what we do for all of our dairy farms.

We just zoom out, Google Map it and then.

Add. You've got to hope it's there

though. If it's that new, they might not

have appeared yet, but you know, mostly it's there.

But it can't be that basic paper.

You don't have to be complex or anything.

Red Tractor state, don't they, that any competent person must

pick up the folder and be able to find those boxes?

Yeah, but there you. Go.

So they need to be updated every visit.

If you move the box, it needs to be updated.

Yeah, it's a lot of a lot of software.

A lot of the software like you could move it, just delete, move

a lot of the software you could move them back easily.

You can, but I can imagine that if you are paper in that

situation, that'd be nightmare. It was it, to be honest with

you. That's the really big because a

lot of these places we're moving boxes fairly regularly depending

on or traps or whatever you're using and it was a nightmare.

It was even using stickies to go on to print out.

It was I tried everything and not now just being able to go.

You're there, you're there, you're deleted.

You're or even if you're borrow baiting, you can put borrow how

many borrow baits you borrowed and you can put them on the bit

on the map and you can put them on there and then when you come

back you can take them off. And yeah, it's awesome that.

I'm missing you. Yeah, but you do.

You do. I suppose that's the thing.

Here's a tip from here. Google map it, then add an image

in the in as a background on publisher, then trace around

around all the details, then remove the background image.

Labigo people, there's a tip there.

There is. That's a good.

One. There we are.

Yeah, yeah. It sees my pen and paper.

Oh well, I've got, I've got zero to sort 1st and then that's it.

There'll be no stopping me, but yeah.

Well. Anyway, anyway, change the

subject slightly. How's the moles going?

Then Sam, they come in. Here, Well, to be honest with

you, it is so wet round here that I'm I'm booked in all the

farms are booked in ready for this this season, but I probably

won't start. I've got my first one booked in

10th of March. So I'm going to leave it a

little bit longer because it's just so wet round here.

So we'll give it a little bit longer and then we'll hit them

then. So a few domestics, but not,

not, not loads, few domestic moles.

But yeah, we're, we're booked up and ready to go.

So it will, I was thinking today the sun came out and I thought

nearly moulding. It's nearly, it feels nearly

moulding. So yeah, it will be soon.

How? About yourself.

You got few domestic. Tom I got quite a few, quite a

few coming in at the minute so. That's fucking all these show

offs, all these show offs. My comment will be to this

subject what moles will be my more my comment what moles

they're. Moving.

Wow, they ain't ringing me at the minute.

The problem, you're chasing the grass.

We'll change the grass by the end.

It'll be come April, the grass starts going and then you'll get

people ringing you late and you literally go to the site and the

grass is this high and you're like, you couldn't ring me.

I normally take all my bookings in now, but I've learnt not to

wait for people to ring me. I ring people and say do you

want your moles doing this year? And then I can book them all in

and it's do it like fully booked, job done then and there

because people otherwise wait until, Oh yeah, we've got moles

everywhere. And they think you can just do

it overnight, don't they? So.

Yeah. Oh man, same with goal proofing.

Goal proofing, all the phone calls now.

Oh, can you come and can sort a roof out?

Girls are looking like they're going to nest.

Yeah, but you have months. Months.

And now it's like, yeah, can't fit them all in.

I'm afraid so. Yeah.

Nightmare. It's like, please.

And I always try and put it out there.

Always put it out in September. Right.

Girls are going. Have you got a problem this

year? Let's get it sorted now.

Nothing. Nothing.

Because the babies are flown. Nobody's in there.

And then and the bloody mid February, that's it.

And we've got Miles and we've got we've got dolls.

It's like, Oh no, but yeah, hey ho.

It's a nice moment to have, you know that you're getting the

work to do the belt briefing, but oh still, come on, you get

so much more in. You've had a fair bit of

squirrel work as well, and you're proofing Karen.

I have, yeah, yeah, the the squirrels, I've, I've pretty

much covered me squirrels now all around the local area.

There's there's no more running around because you remember,

Sam, we were talking that I'm driving down the lane, I see a

squirrel and it's like, oh, no, better stop.

And then this person walking their dog next to me kind of

like giggled seeing a pest control van stopping and not

killing the squirrel and running it over.

And it's like, no, no, no, don't get paid for that one.

That was going to happen, baby. And getting somebody's roof

space. Yeah, they're not.

Coming back but all locally I've I've I've sort of done your

little trick with a Fen 4 in the cage.

Brilliant. Nice.

Brilliant. Yeah, it's good to be.

Let's kind of hand in that. WTS what I'd go to and then Oh

yeah, yeah, the Fen, the Fen 4 in the cage, up in the roof

space. Awesome, awesome.

Did you have any luck with the other?

Did you have any luck with the Canyon I give?

Yeah. No, not yet.

No. No, have you not?

No, You'll be joyful. I'm still I'm.

Still waiting for the Kenya run to get a photo for you?

Yeah, yeah, you'll be happy that day.

Yeah. Like good.

Good job then. Loving the fence falls in the

cages actually. They're handy, they're all

handy. I had one in a pub the other

day. We had squirrel running around

the round and round the pub and there was a little little tiny

gap where it was coming through. A little fan cage in there.

Job done. Happy days next day so nice.

Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. I've still got a couple of

squirrel jobs on, but the main part of them are all all

finished now. It's just come on, insects.

That's what I'm saying. Come on, the insects.

All right. Rat City at the minute isn't.

It it's yeah, Kieran, Kieran, he's saying do you bank with

NatWest? You do, I do.

He's saying you, you you can have free agent software for

free with them. So he's saying try that.

Well, you're writing that down in your notebook.

In your notebook. He just said that you get it

free of charge with them. I imagine it's, I don't, I don't

know. It's like free agent is free.

Nice. There we go.

I will. Anyone else is listening?

You. Can there we go?

I can't remember. Which one is?

The NatWest. There was one that links I know

Sean uses the software and I can't.

I'm going to have to watch the podcast back which one he uses,

unless you knows that you can that links with Sean software

and I think that's reasonable priced as well.

I can't remember what what it's called and that's a that's a

accounting software, but I'll have to it's it's on one of the

podcasts about the software. It's going to be QuickBooks on

zero. I think it's probably 0.

It's not. It's another one.

It's about Hugh know. Yeah, Hugh might know it.

It sounded quite good. I think it was reasonable.

They're probably no, but Hugh's now saying he's changed it.

He's I really changed it. All right, we've changed instead

of 0. So he's not using zero anymore.

You ain't. They must be using free agent

then. I'm I'm not sure.

Yeah, nice. So.

So there we are. How much proofing are you

getting done then, Sean? Are you getting much proofing

done? Not not on the.

Main saying about We're talking about lights upselling, weren't

we? That's that's the thing up sadly

I'm not the best at it. The tool is on order because

I've ordered that excluded tool for the mice and rats because I

was ordering 2 new rat gates. And I'll be honest, if you have

to put a non return valve in rackgates I find are the best of

the market. I do.

They might be a bit more expensive than the others, but

but but I find they're the best. But yes, we are going to be up

selling more. I'm going to get up till and try

up sell more, try and make it more of an educational.

So at the end, we, we, we, we prove, prove them out the best

we can. Yeah.

I'm not the best at that, to be honest.

I'm not. But he's he's given me ideas on

how to, on how to do it, show them visually.

But then they kind of get it. They do.

Because I'm going to, I'm going to try and sell Jason, who's in

chat. He makes the downpipe guards.

He does like Lodium Rat Pack. Yeah, I've seen them and yeah.

And yeah, we're going to try and do that, offer them as well,

because they're they're quite a good system and you do get

people go with a block up. Well, it's called maintenance.

Every three months you just pull it out, give it a clean and pull

it back. It's called maintenance.

It is. So that's what you're.

Charging. For that's exactly what he says.

Actually, yeah, Yep. You put in a DRV, you know a

drain rack valve you've got to go back and maintain how much a

year and check isn't working money.

You can, Yeah, you can. But you can also go from a

little contract that says that if you don't book another

appointment, it's on you. So a lot of people do that.

They do. You don't legally have to go

back at all because a lot of people don't.

But you can bolt that on. You're right, Kieran.

You're always, this is the man you see?

He's always thinking of a way of making more money.

One coin into two coins. That's yeah, exactly exactly.

But no. But has anyone tried?

Have you tried those new Lodi air brick covers?

Vent covers. I won't be none.

Yeah, I've seen them. They're good.

Yeah, I've seen them. And problem is though they seem

simple but but you problem is you've got a stock or 4.

So because you don't know what size you're getting, that

happens on stock ready on the van, you'd probably have to buy

4 of each quite a big costing that is you won't know which I

don't remember how much they were, but you have to, you'd

have to have one for each size on board, wouldn't you?

Rather than a normal 1 where you could have yeah.

I have I have a stock. I haven't tried them yet.

I'm. I'm not going to.

But like I like one envy they always do a sell off don't they?

Event covers buy a big stock because they usually work out in

the half price so. That's why we got most.

Quite a few because I end up I end up putting loads on.

I had 22 on a house the other day.

The. Master, the master the master.

No, no, no, no, no. You got, you got mice coming in

everywhere. Let's stick them on.

Exactly. You know, we, we did a, we did a

job the other day and their concrete steps drop in and it's

like, yeah, no, we'll knock that out and rebuild your step.

You know, don't have to do pest control.

I'll, I'll clean the patio, tidy up the whole area, get rid of

all the harbourage, the walls. It really doesn't bother me.

I will upsell and get me man to do it, go around and do all the

rest of it. I'll do the pest control.

We can then do all the all the maintenance part of it and yeah,

extra money in it just. And you're always looking.

Why haven't you put? The next point?

Oh yeah, exactly. Why haven't you put your main

man on, Are you Kieran? Where's Paul the Proofer?

Or Paul the proofer. Paul the Proofer.

Yeah. Oh, he's around somewhere.

He's probably stuck up on a roof and he.

Yeah, he's proofing. He's too busy proofing.

He's out proofing. He ain't got time for this.

You don't know about nights off. He's like, he's a dandy white.

Yeah. No, he's in in what season?

In what season? Back end of our season.

When you've got a monster nest up in the roof space.

I will always send him up first with a white light and then I

get around the other side with a red light and so they all attack

him and then I get it sorted. Brilliant.

And he still doesn't work tomorrow.

Love it. Love it.

Oh dear. I.

Was just. In case you rock it, love you.

Both, yeah. But no, it's, it's, it's like

you say, you know, I, I, I've worked hard to get a good team

around me. You know, I've, I've got my

drain man. I've got, I've got Paul the

Proofer, you know, and I, yeah, it works really well for us, you

know. So yeah, we do all right.

But upselling, love a bit of upselling.

I've had retail experience in, in horticulture, running a

garden centre and stuff. And it's all about upselling,

not not trying to RIP people off, but just this is what we

can do. And if you want it done, then do

it. And it's good, it's good.

It works well. It works well.

You just got the kind of thing. I have, yeah.

It's I'll get there. I'll let you know when I've when

I've done a lot more. I'm not.

I'm not. Wearing drains in as well.

Aren't they? Yeah, wearing.

Drains in you know I'm selling you you.

You, you that is. Yeah, that is enough.

And offering more one stop shop isn't.

It it's kind of kind of the idea because it's it's like when I

went to think, think Brooklyn, that's the thing.

And then I said to my dad about this is Grant.

And he was like, what about getting drain camp right now?

That's a good idea, isn't it? And like, obviously your, your

questions have to hit the mark. You see, right.

Like there's always a sustainability question in

there. And the guy, the guy that was

doing the business advisor kind of coached me through what to

say and he approved my writing because he knew what was pass

and what wouldn't. So he says anything that could

help the environment. Sean I was as if I did the

drains they become with the drains and I found to like a

whole ingress that says technically we could just you

know, if potentially I'm not saying the per say some people,

if they probably hadn't got a rat issue yet, you could just

get it done and get the find it without the need of identity.

So he loved that. Is there anything else, Sean

with his camera? Remember when they used to do

drain surveys? Well, don't need to dig.

There we go. That's exactly on the head.

No digging required. Because he says that would be an

environmental impact, things like that on the on the machine

that's taking it off. But it's really good.

But we're just, we're just rolling it out now.

But yeah, it's quite fun. Yeah, absolutely.

You know, and and the environmental thing as well, if

you've got a pipe that's dropped, then you know it's a

sewer. You're then leaching all of that

into the ground. I actually put that in as well.

I did put that in as well. I did.

You're talking your house can get damp through it, it's

leaching off. It can go into waterways.

You know they're putting bleach down a toilet.

You're putting all the chemicals down there.

Yeah. And if you can find, oh, it

needs a patch. Oh, want me to patch in?

Done then. Yeah.

Not that level yet, but we'll see how well it goes.

But you. Will be I you will be.

You never know. Yeah, you'll get there.

Yeah, you'll get there. One stop shot.

Well, yeah, that's kind of the idea, but we'll see.

We will, yeah. It's just trying to always

anyway. How?

Are you? You've well, you've got a

camera. Have you used it yet, Kieran?

Have you used your camera yet? Sorry, Have you used your camera

yet Kieran? I haven't got, I haven't got,

I've only, I've only got a small inspection.

I haven't got a drain camera. So Nathan from Waller who came

round to see me the other day because he was just passing with

his, with his van full of wares, he's going to be at the MBTA

roadshow at Bucky at Buckfast and if you buy stuff there you

get a discount. So he's going to do a discount

there. So considering the cameras, 44K

plus that, if I can get some money off it's going to be a

winner isn't it? Well, yes, I mean, I'll be

honest, I've seen him. I don't know if, yeah, it's him.

I've seen on LinkedIn. And I'll be honest, they're

ready for LinkedIn, right? And I don't know whether he's

watching or not, right? But when I looked at his bio, I

was like, who the hell is this company?

Because when you read the bio, right, it doesn't say that they

sell drain cameras. It sells.

It says they sell measuring equipment, right?

So I had to ask someone who the hell is this company?

Put. Drain cameras in the bio.

Yeah, I have to tell him to upgrade it.

But they they getting into pest control and and helping out and

moving into the pest control industry.

Hence, they're going to go to all the road shows and.

They've got a stand, haven't they?

They've got. They've got a tool.

They've got a stand, haven't they?

They have. Yeah, yeah.

So I've got their, I've got their camera for just drain

inspections, just to just to inspect the pit.

And also you can use it for going up chimneys, for storm

season, for bees. So I got it because the MBTA

code of best practise and it changed.

So I can put it up there, I can measure how far up they are.

I can take videos of it. I can take photos.

And yeah. Suppose you're right.

Suppose you're right. You can just set a camera, isn't

it? It is, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, they've got it.

Have you used it? That's what I mean.

Have you used it on the job? Yours.

Oh yeah. That's what.

That's what I was asking. Yeah, yeah, the camera as well.

The camera as well. You can get metre poles and

screw them on there. So when you're up in a roof

space and you can't get down to the east, you can just angle it

down there. Comes up on your phone.

Brilliant. Move it all around and see

something. What's going on off your phone,

off the app, off the phone. You can take photos, you can

record, you can have another person as well look at it as

well. So you can have the client or or

your work mate looking at the same time.

Really good, Really good. That's a nice clear picture.

Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, brilliant.

And even if, even if you lose the Wi-Fi connection set the

chimney, it will still record. And so when it comes back in the

signal, you can still see exactly what, what you've

recorded, the reel that you've got.

The reel is a, is a metered reel.

So as you as you reel it out, it tells you how many metres are at

the chimney. And yeah, and get the thermal

camera out as well and get a picture of the thermal camera of

where the bees are. Job done.

Nice. I mean mine mine.

I do believe it was Mark Wendman who who wrote the new COPD for

for APIs Minifera, one of the bees.

So he said to me today it. Was him.

It was him. Yeah, yeah, it's so it was him.

Oh, don't, don't. I don't because they ring us.

Don't ring us. Don't do them.

They do ring. They ring.

Yeah, We we turned our number off at one point because it kept

ringing That'll. Be your next add on.

Don't want to do that? No, no.

What place was that camera, Kieran?

What make? Yeah, polar right WHOLER.

Something like that. That's got to be German or

that's got to be German or something like that.

It is indeed. Yeah, you'll have them down at

bucket dude. You'll.

Have a look. Yeah, they'll have a bucket.

It won't be worth me doing that that level but might be some

lowest back ones maybe. Kieran, Kieran, don't listen to

Sam. Sam's got that much.

He's like stop the cash on the table.

No problem. But no, I'd rather spend it on

thermal. I know, I know.

I'm kidding. Drains Drains isn't much good,

but it would be quite handy sometimes I for different

places. I'll tell you what we use quite

a bit, especially Wasps, is the little ferret Cam.

That's pretty nifty. They're good little bits.

Used that a few times last year it was.

There's a handy bit of kit actually quite good pictures.

Nice. Yeah, thermal's a good.

I I had to use a thermal last year and yeah, it was.

I made a video on it. I thought it was going to do

better than it did, but it didn't.

But it was the point. It was a point.

It was like, yeah, Life of Vicam.

Yeah, well, no, I think I the thermals.

So obviously use thermals for surveys and shooting for

scanning, but the the one that you were using for the the

location Wasps nest. I've actually got one of them as

well because the stuff that you're using for shooting is is

too much almost when you're looking in rooms and stuff.

So that one that you had is absolutely ideal just for

looking around and seeing where they'll nest the 2, isn't it?

So they're good bits of care. Oh.

They are and it's quite good fun, isn't it?

Cheering the customer like. Yeah, yeah, there it is.

Yes. It is quite good, that one.

Yeah, we are. Good, yeah.

It it with that though, with that one she kept ringing up.

Because. Though.

Did she? Yeah, because like I said to

her, it's dead. I was showing her on the I said

it's absolutely dead. But what was happening was

because of the long route up. They were going down and up.

Some of the ones that were coming back were confused for a

while. They kept going back thinking

nest was alive, but obviously not going in the nest, but it

was dead. But the Wasps that were outside

the nest at the time weren't dead.

So in the end they buggered. They all disappeared.

But she did ring up a couple of times.

I said I can come, can you hear anything?

And you see them. She says no.

The old one. I says well that's what it was,

I've got it. I checked but but yeah.

I had a few that we bagged last year without using any chemical,

just bagged them and I had workers rebuilding nests and had

to had to go back and then leave a bit of residual on there

because they that it was a couple of times last year they

actually the workers started rebuilding the nest where they

were too. So I mean, it does happen.

It does. But yeah, but no, I do like the

old thermal camera and like when you find it, you drill a nice

little 10 mil hole in the wall and it's amazing how many Wasps

will get out of that hole. Lesson Drill the hole quick

spike in. That's what, what, what, what we

do is we do like, we start with, we do that, then we put some

tape over it for a second till we're ready and then we're in

and then I'll fill it, you know, But it's, it's when you can hear

it, you can hear it like it's all noisy.

Then it goes dead quiet. It does, obviously.

That's when you're using, what's it called?

The cans. The cans.

Oh, the more stress destroyer. Aerosols.

Yeah. Aerosol.

Yeah, that would never happen with powder like that.

No, they. Go mad or not.

Don't. They let you go and they go

crazy? Don't.

They make good videos. They make for good videos if you

can get one before and after. I got a few last year come

through the just chew through the ceilings.

Yeah, you did, didn't you? You had some cupboards a lot,

wouldn't they? Yeah.

Yeah, quite a few clients that stand in the face sadly

shouldn't laugh, but yeah. Wasn't that wrong way that that

plumber you're about the one with the plumber thought that it

it would it was damp and he put his hand through and that.

Yeah, he pulled the ceiling down, thinking it was a, a, a

leaky pipe. Yeah, bless him.

Yeah, oopsie. But yeah.

I bet he's for now on. Really.

It's got a little screwdriver and I bet he just puts.

Is that what he told him in future?

Just a little bit, yeah. It might not be a dump.

It might not be a dump. It might be a wasp nest, you

know. Absolutely.

Yeah. But yeah, I forgot about that

one. Yeah, bless him.

But yeah. Filled the kitchen up full of

Wasps. They're all queening as well.

Yeah, but there we are. It's all a bit of fun on it.

Oh, it is how you getting? Are you getting on with your

dogs then, Sam? How do they help you?

No flat on your farms. I'll tell you what, Adam, how

again today. And yeah, it, it, it, it, it

really is an asset now. It really is.

I mean, they're flying. They're both.

I've, I work too. I've got a terrier and

Beddington Whippet and they're both just on the, on the part

now they're, they're quite, I'm quite happy with how they're

going. But it, yeah, there's a lot of

places that we can't use for identicide.

There's a lot of places that you can't track because there's too

much livestock about. And having that, having that,

there you go. Instant death is just, yeah,

instant control and it looks good.

You know, I quite often have an audience of farmers as you're

walking around the next minute, the dog's just killed a rat and

come back and they're like, oh, brilliant.

That's, you know, he's, you know, and also the marking I can

put the dog in. So especially with the

Beddington whippet, I can send her in searching into a lorry

yard. She can walk around and if she

finds something she'll mark. I mean, the, the terrier will as

well, but she seems to really search, you know, higher as well

and, and you know, right, that's where they're to and you know,

it's, you know, there's a rat in there.

Now you've marked it's in there. Now we've got to try and get it

out for you. And there we go.

It, it's done. You know, we were last last

night, we were literally walking through firing units, killing

rats that were in amongst piglets and they were just

picking them out of the piglets. Now there's no other way you

would have been able to really, you couldn't save shoot it.

You couldn't trap it. You can't use redempticide

there, so, and they're going from the slats to the food, from

the slats to the food. You would never have gotten them

any other way. So yeah, it really is an awesome

talk. Not in every situation, but

yeah, they really are, you know, and servicing contracts.

I mean, I, I've pretty much most of my agricultural work, I've

always got a dog with me servicing the contract with me.

Apart from the bigger contracts where we've got to be a bit more

bi secure with things, but like the dairy farms and the the pig

farms, we're using them a lot. So yeah, an asset, an asset.

They really are. It's.

Good to hear that. It's, it's, it's becoming more

of a it's a growing market, isn't it?

People using dogs dogs because it is how pest control used to

be. Yeah, then everyone.

Went away from dogs and then it's not saying you're following

a trend, you're not, but it's just helpful.

Plus it also hits the eco target food as well, doesn't it?

It's a tool so you don't have to like obviously, like you say,

sometimes the big boxes won't do it.

They won't get to them, so you can eliminate them.

I've always worked dogs when I was keeping all the way all the

way through and I've, you know, always got a lot of respect and,

and know how in some, not in all situations, some situations it's

just pointless. There's too much stuff in the

way. It's too dangerous.

There's slurry pits. You've got to be very careful

with what you're doing, your risk assessments.

You know, we always keep a dog log from the moment they go out,

out, out to work. We've got recordings of how long

they're out for work, welfare cheques, making sure

everything's up together. I always make sure we've got the

first aid kit, dog, dog first aid kit in the van ready just in

case anything happens. But in the right situation and

especially for the mark in an instant, instant destruction

just like that. We find a lot, especially on the

sites, there's so much food around, you've got serious

behavioural resistance, neophobia, and so anything that

helps reduce numbers without having to get a rat into a box

is a is a winner, to be honest with you.

So yeah, they are, they are an asset, they really are.

But it is, yeah, it is going that way.

I think, you know, we do a lot more trapping as well, you know,

because you just, you just find a lot of the time these rats on

these sides, they, they're not going to eat the Radenta side.

They're just not. They've got, they've got

everything they need. You know, they've got that

system in place. There's the food.

I know it's safe. So yeah, it's just using

different things and there but and it's enjoyable, isn't it?

It's, it's nice when it all works.

It doesn't always work. There's plenty of times that it,

it all goes wrong. But yeah, it's nice when they're

flying and it and you've got, you know, clients watching.

I don't like to have too many people because it distracts

everything. But you will quite often have,

you know, a client watch you from a distance as you're

sorting it out. And it does, it does look.

Good, I share some of them. I, I, yeah, I do.

I try not to be too strict with things, but I like the dogs to

focus on what we're there to work, not to play.

It's a. Serious game.

I don't I don't know the idea of a lot of shouting, a lot of

noise. You know, I want the dogs to sit

Mark when we have a bolt jobs done.

Let's not make a big who are about it move on to the neck

because yeah. And it doesn't look good If you

have lots of shouting and cheering.

I think you got to think at all times you could be videoed and I

I don't I don't want it to look like we're having fun.

It's it's a job. It's, you know, it's as humane

as possible. No, no, you are right.

You are about. Well then, some of your farms.

Some of your farms, Sam. You're nearly rodenticide free

on, aren't you? Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

So I mean, I, I couldn't do the job without rodenticide.

I'm not saying that that, that I am on all of them, but on some

of them we're pretty much rodenticide free.

Others we we have to heavily use it, especially for house house

mice in some of the bigger, bigger sites.

But yeah, on on especially on the dairy farms and stuff.

We're pretty pretty much getting, getting, getting there

on some sites, but I try, but you can't always get there.

But yeah, they're but. You're heavily injured on.

Some, yeah, yeah, I mean, we do a lot of shooting as well.

Shooting is a great, a great asset to it as well.

But yeah, dog, dogs and shooting do help a lot.

They do. So just a quick question, Sam,

where do you buy all your traps from then?

I get them imported from Scotland.

Oh, do you? Oh, right, what do you buy?

Because I'm mad. Yeah I might.

I might suddenly just randomly get 5 pallet loads of traps

thrown up from Scotland. Maybe.

I've got the pictures too, Kieran, don't worry.

I tell you what, I was like a kid at Christmas there.

I was just like, how many doc traps can one man have to be

happy? And I'm like, I'm very happy.

I was putting, I was putting another 20 out today on a farm

and I was just smiling as they were going out.

Aaron says that I can't stop talking about traps.

So you've opened it up now. Poor old Lucy, do it every day.

Yeah, bless her. Yeah.

So I was talking trap. I love talking traps.

Did you do? Yeah, she's to be honest with

you, she's brilliant though. She's very supportive and like

she's hopefully coming on in the next year or so, So and she can

trap some stuff. Mine I've never known someone

about a live trap rats like she can and she's good at trapping

moles. So yeah, she'll be an asset.

Sure, she already is, but she's even more an asset.

So yeah, is. She good at shooting too.

Yes, she is. Yeah, she's she's she's not bad.

We'll get a little bit quicker on the rats, but accurate, wise

and safe. I can you trust her that she

won't? You know, safety is the main

thing. So yeah, she's good.

She's very good. Yeah, So what's your favourite

trap at the minute then? Sam?

How long you got? Sean, how long you got?

I do. I do love the dog trap.

I do love the dog trap at the moment, but I love, I love all

traps. I always have done.

I've always been obsessed with traps, but I do.

The dock is winning for me. Yeah, at at.

The moment. But is that the one you showed

me in every year where you had a stick?

That was the Tully trap. That's the Tully.

Trap. Yeah, I've got, I've got some of

them I'm experimenting with along with the Perdix.

I do actually really like the Tully because it's got, it's got

this lovely safety catch on the side and you, you're like

completely safe. So you can really mess about

with it and then you know it, you can play around with your

weights and set it just right and then off, off it goes.

So it is quite impressive. But they're, if you buy them

new, they're very expensive, aren't they?

I think Kieran, you looked a lot.

They weren't, they were about £60, weren't they?

Yeah, £60, weren't they? Yeah, they're quite a bit.

For what? Yeah.

Wow. Yeah.

That one in. Scotland, they're not.

If you get them imported from Scotland, they're a bit cheaper.

But yeah, yeah, they're good traps.

But the dock, the docks, the docks and the thing, nice.

With the dock, there's no going back, is there?

Once they got onto the waffle maker, there's no coming really.

There's no coming back off the waffle maker, which is in my

mind, the traps got to be as humane as it possibly can be and

meets meets that regulation for me.

We use a lot of everything. So I'm not saying there's one

trap for all, but for work for welfare, I think the dock's very

good for that. But then set right.

So are the others, you know, so a fence set correctly is very

good for that. You know, a break back set

correctly is very good. You know, we've, we've

experimenting with you got me started on traps, didn't you,

Karen, you it's. Fine.

Absolutely. One thing that I'm not talking

about traps anymore, they we've experimented with wooden tunnels

because we I, I've noticed that the rats, especially round here

have got probably possible, but they they don't like plastic.

So we've got serious plastic avoidance.

And also they don't like the normal feel of normal trap like

in a in a, in a normal standard box.

So I've had quite a good luck with bringing a Victor wooden

trap back to end of a box, sealing off 1 end with mesh so

they can still see through, and then having it so they've got 2

baffles and then hit into the Victor woodens.

And they work quite well and humane as well.

So it's just all about your setup isn't it?

Really So? But that's it, no more talking

about traps, so I won't shut up. No.

How's the track boxes then? I'd say I, I will say one thing

because I know we're going to talk about AI and I've, I've

been biting at this because I quite like the webinars from New

Zealand, the predator for free 2050 and I find find that

absolutely fascinating. And I know we were going to say

AI and I don't have much input on AI.

Sean Sean's the man for AI. But I was amazed what I think,

you know, these New Zealand are really pushing it out there for

everything and they've got traps that are literally reading what

pests are going in and they can they can say this is a rat, this

is a stove, this is a cat. And then the trap will either go

off or not go off. So you imagine that technology,

if we could put that into some of our situation, especially

with like neophobic response from rats and the sites we have

to deal with, how brilliant that will be.

You know that that would be insane if you could say, right,

I could leave this trap open in an open environment.

And it's, you know, obviously we it's going to probably be a long

way from being 100% accurate, but you can say, right, that's

not going to go off unless a rat runs across, you know, but I

suspect it's just having that 100% guarantee.

You still got to be a bit, you'd be a bit wary when you still,

but there you go. That's quite impressive, to be

fair, but it it looking at the animal?

Is it a camera? So yeah, it's not it's yeah,

that's what like I agree with what you said with just the it's

gone off. Well, that doesn't really tell

you anything. This puts down and it tells you

and it AI pictures what what it is.

So if it's if it's a rat, yeah, it will it will go off Bam.

If it's a non target, no, if it was a Wicker or something like

that, it's like no and it won't, it won't go off.

It just just stays still. And because what they found is

they needed to open up some of their dock boxes to allow some

of the the Stokes and the ferrets because they were

getting bigger over there. And their, their concern was

about, I think, don't quote me on it, about obviously the Kiwis

and everything getting in. So they needed something that

would allow them to open it up a little bit bigger, but also not

let the trap go off if it was a non target.

So what that could open up would be, I mean, I'm not saying you'd

want to sit a dock somewhere, but it would mean that you could

maybe open up the dock design, you know, as a run through

without baffles or some or, you know, just a bit bit more open

holes or what have you. So, you know, if you had

something on target come in, you know, how could that then be

pushed onto bait boxes? You know, could you have, oh,

Apodemus has come in. No, it's not going to open.

Oh, it's a, you know, it's a Norway rat.

Yeah, it's going to open, you know, but with an actual camera

so you can check and go. Yeah, it was right.

There's a bit, there's a video of a rat, you know.

Asking what? What's it called again?

Sam? New Zealand What?

So it was Predator, Predator 32050 and it was, it was, there

was a lot of webinars by the Department of Conservation out

there. I can't remember exactly what it

was. I think Con Ovation was the

people behind it, but don't quote me on it.

I know Doc had a lot to do with it.

And that's where you know, the redenticide that I was singing

about to you too. That's where that was, that's

where that was from. They've they've started

developing it and using it. I know it's an old redenticide

and I'm pretty sure they've got some funding from the UK as well

to start looking into that. So no, it's pretty interesting

stuff, but I think they use it in Australia on lizard counts

because it could actually be programmed to see what lizard or

what was coming into the boxes and all sorts.

I've put it in chat, I don't know if any of you can click it

but it's there so I will have a look at that.

Yeah, no, they they've got it right over there.

Yes, ma'am, he's on the cusp. He really does love traps.

He he knows about that. There was start.

So where did you find that we just Googling like traps It came

up or? I was, I've spoken to Kieran a

few times that I quite admire New Zealand and how they're

dealing with Predator Free 2050 and I think that as a as a

nation that can get things right and are winning, it's good to

look into that. So I've been looking, I've just

been literally trying to find everything I can about that and

that came up through the there's a brilliant webinars.

Brilliant. It's the Department of

Conservation. Yeah, it's all yeah.

Also, I mean, some of the lures and stuff they've got going on

and they're even developing tunnels with the same AI cameras

in that can because they they were using like, you know, like

on the mink rafts that we use like the run through of like on

on on clay to look at prints. So you can then change it to a

live trap. But they were using them but in

tunnels. But they're using like AI

tunnels now so they can flagship like what's running through in

an area so they can keep on top of it.

Like, yeah, it's crazy brilliant.

Say I listen to your beauties and besties and how that AI got

all about cameras. I wasn't convinced by his talk

or anything. But now what you're talking

about is very different, it sounds.

Yeah, it looked good when I watched it.

I don't know the insurance and out of it.

You know me, I'm not a tech wizard, but I was impressed by

you're telling me that it could read what it is and the track

won't go off. Yeah, that sounds good.

Yes, that is interesting. Wellington as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, pest free.

Wellington, they've got them. They've nearly made Wellington

pest free now. Yeah, for rodents, for rats,

which is quite. Incredible, everyone.

They catch they they DNA every single one.

And yeah, it's, it's amazing. It gets weighed and they are

right on it over in New Zealand, which is really nice to see in

it. Some of the islands as well,

some of the islands out there as well.

They are now rat free and they're really working quite

hard on it. There's a dark side to it which

I won't go into in New Zealand, which is what they get up to.

But what they're doing doing for the rodent side of it is is, you

know, really impressive. And like you say, we, we get the

docks, definitely the Department of Conservation from them.

So they get cameras buddy. I've just gone on Bing.

I've just gone on Bing inside PES 3 Wellington.

It's not come up, but Bing must know that I'm mentioning you

from Guardian Pest Control because his websites come up

second listing. When I put that in on Bing, I'll

probably have to go on. Google probably knows that.

Yeah, have a look on Facebook, their Facebook page.

Sean, look on Facebook. Pest Free Wellington.

That. That would, that would be

interesting though, wouldn't it, if that came out, if they pushed

that up. Did you look it up in the end?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I did.

I, I saw what you sent me and I had a read of that one.

Yeah. And that could be well promising

do. You want to tell people what

you're talking about? Do you want to tell people what

you're talking about? The I think they were developing

A redensity which we, which we don't, don't ask me activist or

anything else, but they, they basically, I think they tried it

in the 1960s and it was very much specific to Ratus.

So it would only kill, well, mostly only killed Norway rats

and black rats and I think even mice didn't really affect mice.

And I think dogs, cats, it was pretty safe.

But the problem was that because it obviously killed instantly,

which all all rats were suddenly going to work out that they

didn't feel very well. They stopped feeding and it also

didn't have the best palatability.

So it got taken off the market. But I think what they're trying

to do is to make it more palatable.

And then if you say had it as a pre feed, so you pre fed the non

tops, got them latched in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then you trucked it in as redempticide.

You've overcome that. This isn't safe or don't feel

very well. They've already got latched onto

the product. Bam, they're dead.

But it will work well in their their situation where they've

got to be really careful of species, other species.

But I think if it could come over to this country, as long as

we pre fed and got it working right, that could be really

helpful. And maybe we'd open up a bit of

scope for where we could use it as well.

Maybe maybe another tool for open baiting and that sort of

stuff. They said it.

They said it was first produced in the 60s under.

The come on here you. Eradicate.

Cool. That's it.

Eradicate. Are you there, Hugh?

Do you remember this? So the LD 50 for rats is five

milligrammes per K5 to 15 milligrammes per kilo.

Does it say the active on the one I sent you?

So yeah, Northern. One can you read it?

I'd like, I'd like to turn my phone completely off because it

messes up the Internet on there. So I, I can't remember what the

active was, but it's just something interesting.

They, they use, they, they, they, they've got quite a lot of

different products going through there.

So definitely worth something to look at anyway.

Yeah, I've got both them bookmarked now.

I'll put them in a description as well after, but that would.

Be some good to come on here, Sean.

I'll see if I can my pest controllers in one Internet to

appear there. That's a good point though,

isn't it actually? Yeah.

But then you try involved, but it's a lot of volunteers, I

think a lot of it. Yeah, it probably is.

It looks like a charity to me. Or or government.

It's all there. Yeah, I bet they're not the.

Only friends who talk about killing pigs.

Yeah. I couldn't, I could, I could

look into it. I could see if we can get

somebody on, but obviously. Conservation, I think it was the

the the the lady was off and she was really, really good.

She was I'll I'll see if I can find a link to it and send it to

you, Sean, so you. Can oh, cheers.

I think it's even got her e-mail on it so it might be worth it.

She was very. Interested.

Yeah, I might have to be a podcast where it's recorded

because time differences, etcetera.

But you know, I can get us. I could I have a Co host.

Sam, it's your man. I would.

Oh, yeah. Don't get me started.

You don't want me on there. I'll just.

I'll just listen. There'd be too many questions

coming my way. Sean.

I'd love it. I would.

Shut up. I'll just ask you for the

questions. Sam, give me some questions.

Plenty of questions I'll have, definitely, I'd love them.

You just have have Sam in your ear, mate, on a microphone on a,

you know, maybe you're on the headphones are.

Talking. Yeah, that.

Would drive you nuts. Yeah, yeah.

Drives Lucy nuts enough. So yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't

advise it. Yeah, bless her.

Yeah, but yeah, but happy days. What?

About you, that AI then, Sean, you're the AI man.

Let's let's hear a bit about what you think, because you

tried. You tried the bait boxes, didn't

you? I did, I did yeah, for the MPTA

when I obviously I was asked, I was not a board director of the

MPTA when I got asked when it happened, I was a board

director. How how I got it was saying

digital, basically digital monitoring isn't for small

business etcetera. So Kevin for the MPTAC, my

comment and he's then obviously Gary from Syngenta and says I

think, I think Sean might be the man.

I'll ask him. And it problem is it's the cost.

You see, it's like you like it's like a lease system.

So like the more years you have it the cheaper it is but the

cost It doesn't tell you what's been in the box it just tells

you activations. So it doesn't count how much

bait or non tox has been used. If you had a high end site you

could probably get away with using it in general if the

clients on board but I didn't like when my review is.

If you have AI still don't think it's for small business from

that perspective. But if you had a small business

and had a big client that was willing to pay for it, then yes.

But you got to pay rent, you know, per sensor.

So you have sensor in the boxes. The boxes cost us a sensor

inside them. So you pay per sensor.

So you could be looking at pro £1300 a year or more it it

depends. How many senses would that be?

I think that's the lowest one. It might have been 6.

Really. Well, seven can't remember, but

it all depends on you. You obviously if you do that,

you pass that on to client. You don't eat, you don't eat it

yourself. But I just think it's got a way

to go where the the system you're on about would be that

actually knows what's in the box etcetera or even how much bait's

been eaten or counter or weight or something or knowing what's

in the box would be far better. But I don't, I my comments were

mentioned and I think, don't quote me, I think Gary mentioned

that there is upgrades in the future coming going to be

implemented. So they have took my feedback on

board and they're looking to improve the product and improve

the product. So it's better.

But I mentioned the use of cameras too.

So I don't know whether cameras are coming to it or not.

I don't know. But he mentioned that.

I don't think it is. But yeah, I don't think they're

for small business. But it's just the costs, that's

all. You know, it's, it's it's hard,

yeah. So, so here's a thought, you

know that mould traps are getting looked at by the HSE and

everyone, the government are looking at them and who knows

where that's going? You know they're going to get

banned or they're going to get whatever.

But if you know, are we going to have to check them every 24

hours or who knows where it's going at the moment?

But if we had traps with sensors and went off, caught one, sends

a message to your phone, go and trap.

What do you reckon? I think, I think that would work

really well in domestic settings if if I I wouldn't financially

be able to afford that. If I'm setting let's say 80 to

100 traps on a farm, I couldn't afford that scope.

But I think in a domestic setting to ping a bit like the

ones is it remote, the ones that you put on live traps and then

they can they can once they trigger it will send off the

it'll send you a text saying you've got it.

I think Perdick sell them and you can.

They said they use it for the mink Suffolk mink product

project. They use them all.

They're brilliant. But the cost would be, I think

too much for a domestic for a few domestic traps.

Fine, But I, yeah, you wouldn't be able to, but I, yeah, it

would, it would help me. But I think, yeah, you know,

with moles working in, you know, where they do.

I mean, you could, we've had this conversation a few times,

haven't we? I think, you know, a three day

cycle of checking is fine, you know, especially on

agricultural. But if you have to do daily

check in, it's not if you trap them in the morning, most of

most of lunchtime activity next day, really, you would have

found out a lot of things would have moved by then.

It's not it's not a great hardship, so to say.

You know, I think a day or three days wouldn't be a a real bad a

bad thing as long as you've timed it right with how you're

set in and check. In Yeah, currently currently on

three day. Really.

Yeah, I think 3 days is fine personally I do, I think. 3.

Yeah, Yeah. Well, I've obviously been

involved in discussions for this very thing, but I can't

obviously say too much, but they are looking at all different

angles that the likes of Defra would look at.

Yeah. And it has came up that that.

Me. Personally, they, it has came up

that they may, that they may look at wanting the government

once a day, but they don't, they don't know.

They, they don't know really. They're just looking at looking

at different avenues on what to look into testing stuff.

But I would, I would say from obviously from them, because

when you obviously write to unfortunately you can't say

that's not financially viable for a business.

When you say you can't come once a day because then they'll go,

oh, you're just trying to make money out of it, you see.

So you have to come from the agonal angle of how it is for

the pest, for the mole, etcetera.

So it's, it's, it's hard, isn't it?

It is. It's.

Welfare. But I I think personally it's

more to do with how you're setting the traps in reality.

A lot of people don't tune them right.

Yeah, it's knowledge. It's making sure you've got your

mumble pins correctly, so when you're hitting the loop, you're

hitting round the rib cage for not the back end and you know it

all or even too close on the front.

It's making sure every trap you're using you're

sufficiently, you know, educated enough to tune that trap and set

it. You're always going to get the

odd midst catch. It's just what's going to happen

in volume. But you can lower that

significantly if your traps are tuned and put in correctly.

And yeah, I mean you, you could say financially viable, but in

reality, if you put a trap in on Monday morning and checked it

Tuesday morning in a garden, likelihood is you probably

caught them all year after there isn't it.

But a three day scope is is is sensible for allowing movement

on connector runs? That's the only thing I would

say. Yeah, I just mean that when

you're dealing with government people that you can't say words

like it's not financially viable for a business to do this

because they're looking that, yeah, you've got it's welfare.

Yeah. I'll be honest with you.

I don't know what to say. I've obviously been involved in

conversations, but it's I don't know.

I've not spoken to no government agency.

I don't, I don't know. It's just very.

With Terence's idea, which is brilliant, I think what I'm,

what I'm saying is that it would be fine for the cost of a

domestic, but if you're doing agricultural, you need to, it

would be, you'd have to check them whatever they say, whether

that's daily, half day, whatever.

Because if you were trying to put a sensor on all those traps,

you would there be no point doing it.

So you'd have to actually physically go and check them

because that it would just cost too much and you would wear out.

I reckon a fair few with the situation.

But I think for, I think for domestics, I think that would be

absolutely spot on really, wouldn't it?

Yeah, if they divided the two. But also though, will they ban

live capture for the amateur market?

They're spacing, amateur market can do what they like, can't

they really? So I don't no comment on them

tonight. Yeah, yeah, that's a whole

different. That's a whole different thing

because that you have to have an amateur market because

otherwise. Yeah, but yeah, but they've got

you. You would have public health

issues because people can't afford to get people in all the

time. So I I do think it's fair

enough. No, but the the, the, the

inhumane, humane trap, I think you should go.

Yeah, I. Yeah, I, I call it the.

I call it the inhum I I call it the inhumane trap.

But when it's the. Problem.

We've all been there up in lofts, haven't we?

I think we've all been us. Skeleton.

Yeah, Yeah, I put one of those live traps up there.

Oh, OK, yeah. I never catch though, whenever,

whenever I've had it, so it's still empty.

I'll, I'll bring it down for you.

All right, then I'll say I don't, I don't think it should

be in there. Yeah, when did you know?

Was there pocket she's supposed to jacket regular?

Well, how? Well yesterday it says that's

not enough. It says read the label.

I didn't read the label. So you're supposed to read the

label. If I'm live catching and I just

generally put a live feed camera on a job done, then you can

watch it all the time, can't you?

There's easy, then isn't. It it is, it is absolutely.

Yeah. It is, but yeah.

It's. Well, no, it it's a hard, it's a

hard one because obviously I don't want to say one way or the

other, but when you look at how. Governments work and stuff,

yeah, but. Yeah.

You're in a different position with the FBTA, Sean.

So you know, it's fair. Drop in that one on you, you

know. We have to because mould traps

are one thing, but mould traps aren't fire off because they

were put in the same bracket to begin with as breakbacks.

So whatever, whatever, whether they might restrain themselves,

but we have to be careful with. I don't think though.

There is a there is a follow suit because breakbacks aren't

really that much different from mould traps are they really?

I do. I do think they should remove.

Basically there should be a standard for mould traps and I'm

on the back this shite that the public can buy that are rubbish

from China. I'm on about the unbranded

stuff, not the not the decent ones because you know, our best

mould traps. You're going to shock you now.

A lot of the best mould traps you buy from China, they're made

in China. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. But I'm on about the knock off

versions that are rubbish and if you they'd break if you if you

squeezed it in your hand, I'm on about them.

That will be a good thing. It but it won't like all of

these things. It won't affect the amateur

market. It affects us as as you know

professionals. It's the only people it will

affect. They will they will still buy

the cheap knockoffs and be putting them in the ground to no

avail. And you know that will still go

on. So it is only going to affect

us. I think maybe possibly like, you

know, the same as we're doing the crew points possibly would

maybe, you know, a bit of mole training, her trapping training.

Would that hurt? I don't know, with, you know, a

compulsory level, you know, like how to set traps, how to, you

know, make sure that they're configured right.

Could that be a possibility to help us?

You can't do mole courses though with Alan Jones doesn't.

I've done Alan Jones this course and he was, yeah, it was very

good, very good. Yeah, long drive, 6 hour drive,

but very nice chat. Nice, nice accommodation.

I'd highly recommend it. Yeah, I've spoke to him on the

phone. He's a forbid to come down

tomorrow to be a bit far. You know, that's worth it.

It's worth it. I, I, I did it.

We, you know, we were doing a lot or, you know, already and I,

I still learn a lot of him. He was, you know, he was, you

know, I'm, I'm far from an expert, but he he was, he's

definitely knows his stuff when it comes to models, so.

Oh, he does. He's he's coming on this podcast

at some point when he's free. Yeah, nice, nice.

Yeah, No, Well, well worth it. But I would say what, what I'm

sort of meaning is more like like we're having to do our

crew. Would it, if, if that's how it's

going to go, would we almost save our grace by saying having

to do like a compulsory, you know, point a compulsory point

on mould trapping is that could that be an option?

I don't know if this is going off topic, but I'm just you

know. There isn't any topics.

No, no. But I just, I know.

I just, I just want to go. If the government go, could we

not grow? You know, that's all right,

Karen, you go. But when, but when we went, when

we met up the other day, Sam down at the garden centre and we

do the obligatory walk around the pest, pest control stuff and

we found that I don't know that mole trap that we spent 20

minutes trying to set it. I think he didn't say no, no, it

is. I just think, I just think that

the amateur market isn't going to, isn't going to come.

It's not going to change them at all, but us, you know, if if we

said right, one of our points is going to be this this video on

how to tune each like tale packs, doofus and how to be the

most humane, you know, the Tang and put that through.

Would that maybe help us look more?

You know, I don't know, just just just an idea.

Maybe I'm not. I'm not sure, Ben.

I'm not sure if that was to be done though.

If that was to be done though, you'd have to do it on something

like on the road day, you know? Just as an online video.

If you look out how the three crew points has gone down, you

know, through, through the, through the industry where some

people are like, yeah, let's do it.

And some people are like, well, no, you know, I'm just going to

do my care of redenticide use, you know, Lantra E quid done.

It will just stir up a whole whole can of worms, isn't it?

Yeah. Maybe, maybe, maybe I shouldn't

have said it, but yeah, I. I think it's.

Time, you know, I just see the. Bike that for a if you want to,

yeah. My name will be come up with

this new idea based on some tricky.

Have you got your one tricky point?

Yeah, my one. Yeah, my one mole crew point.

There you. Go.

Sometimes you speak. I know it's, it's a hard one to

know what's going to happen. It is just hopefully we keep

everything. Oh, Philip, we do.

It's hard to know it is it is on that front, but it's interesting

times ahead. It is, it isn't.

And Jason did say that a telly trap 2 is 5820.

That from Game and Country, yeah.

They're quite expensive. They're nice though.

They are quite nice. They are nice, yeah, but they

are. They're expensive.

Well, we've got nearly two out. Hey, people get 2 points.

I can for this. You could like your own points.

Sam, listen. Listen back to yourself, say.

No, I'm tricky. I, I, I cannot listen to myself.

I don't know how anyone else does because I can.

I can, but, but that's three years of it.

That's through Andrew Staneski of the Post to Post Pest Talk in

America. He told me to.

I don't listen to the whole thing.

I don't. So you can prove, but I'll be

honest, Andrew, if you're listening, I haven't listened

back to myself in the while, just the clips I put up.

It is. Is there anything else you

wanted to cover or? I think we've.

No, I think we're cool. No, all good really.

Give me a give one of you give me a four digit code random

code. 3282. All right, OK, 32.

No, I'm OK. There's a random Shank that's

your pin number now, but. I nearly went no, actually

Kieran it is. So if you want, it will be two

points on the British pass register, go to CPD training and

you'll get a quiz. And it's literally just what is

the code? And that is the code.

You'll get your two points. You will, if you're on the BPCA,

you can self register this podcast.

Just say what you've learned and then you'll get your points

automatically because all self register automatically verifies

itself straight away. We didn't know that, Kieran.

That's what it's like being on the British Press Register.

Straight away it's instant. It is.

But yeah, you're thinking too cool, you say.

What happens if you're with basis?

Don't bother. No, with Basis, I've got to

e-mail them because I've got to send them a list of podcasts.

I've got half the criteria and everything.

So that's why I'm waiting to to have a Little Banker podcast

because it gave me it gave me 10 codes last year.

Can only use 6. I hate that rule.

I don't know why that that still exists.

I thought when the I thought when they upgraded, they're

going to go self register. They didn't.

But what a missed opportunity. Yeah.

BPCA is good. BPCA is really good there.

Yeah, there's no, there's, there's, there's no, you know,

hassle or anything with it. It's fairly straightforward and

you know, they they log the points in it.

Yeah, there's no problems with it.

It is. It is worthwhile.

It's good then, that is. But yeah, thanks for the chat

tonight. It was really good.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks.

For asking us all. No, it's good.

I'm I'm going to try and get a monthly panel, so chat about all

various different stuff that comes off.

So I might have you back on both you back on in the future, but I

will. We could talk about traps.

No, no, talk about traps. I'll tell you one thing that

I'll say to the beauties and beasties.

If you need a man you want on about traps, Sam Tricky, that's

who you need on speak. To Stuart Blair, he he's the man

to talk. About I'll tell you what I do

want to get. I do actually want him on the

podcast. I don't know.

I will try and get him on at some point.

Instagram's easiest place to get him.

He's got like a Berman. He's got a page in he and on

YouTube with his videos. She's shooting videos, yes.

And that's just one day. And in the end he said, yeah,

it's Stuart or Stuart Blair. Yeah, I didn't really.

Nice. Trap.

Really nice trap. Yeah, nice things that.

No, yeah, speaks of occasion. He's nice trap.

I'll have to make these AI clips.

I'll have to make all these clips if I make any clips from

this show. But you know what, you know, if

you go over 2 hours, it doesn't do them.

It doesn't matter. We've had great fun.

We have this is this has been the longest podcast in ages on

the podcast. No, no, I know.

But it's been great fun. But yeah, thanks everyone for

watching. And if you watch On Demand

after, please leave us a review on Spotify, Apple podcast or

subscribe on YouTube and follow on Facebook.

Just get me to 1000 followers on Facebook.

That would be absolutely great, but it doesn't seem to you know,

it doesn't matter how many followers you got.

You know, I got about 250 odd or something reaching about 3-3

hundred three 350,000. But this shows you followers

don't mean no as such, but it does mean stuff for getting the

tools, you know, the extra tools you get.

It does, but hopefully because if the beauties and beauties ban

problems of Facebook recently, I haven't, but it keeps

disconnecting them when when they start up.

I don't know what's going on there, but they're a good

podcast. They are.

But yeah, thanks everyone. I think everyone's gone now.

Everyone's gone to bed probably. But yeah, thanks everyone.

Oh, and your stream just hold on for just a second.

But yeah, thanks everyone. And I'll, I'll see you on the

next podcast.

Tonight's Episode