Commercial Pest Control: How to Build Pest Management Programs That Work | Warren Ryan

0:00 Hello and welcome to Pest Perspectives episode 56.

0:08 Pest Perspectives is his aim is to educate and entertain the pest management world. In the UK you can get CPD and if you live anywhere else in the world, if you can qualify for CPD, put it down. But I don't think it does. But we've got listeners all over the world, UK, America, Australia, New Zealand and a lot, a lot of countries we have. So it's good. It's picked up a bit. And as it's a, it's a fun podcast to do. It is I do enjoy it over a year now I've been doing it and and as you can see, if you're looking on camera, I have the best perspectives hoodie.

0:55 Now it may change over a period, but that's obviously me and my gym gear there. We've we've like a Superman kind of theme and I'll be wearing this a Pestec, not a Pestec BPCA Pestex in London. So if you see me, my hoodies got that on the back too. So hey, hello, I will be there if we this one on the red one. I've got 2, but this week I've got Warren Ryan from Ryan Pest Consulting. How are you doing? I'm well, Sean, how are you? Good. Good to hear. I'm OK. Thanks. You had a good day. I have I have been been busy doing doing the thing, trying to keep all the wheels running.

1:51 Definitely what? What time of day is it where you are? Today is a nice day. It's sunny, we've had some rain recently, but I think that's kind of let up. And so it's it's a nice day, a little chilly, but sun's out, so that's good. Good day. What? What time of day are you on? We are at 12:30. Wow, it really is early. Really. It's past 8:00 at night. Yeah, it's just just around lunchtime here. Yeah. No, no, it's nice. Yeah. So what got you into the pest management industry initially when you first got into industry?

2:34 Yeah. Well, First off, I wanted to say thanks for having me on. Thanks for inviting me on here. I don't do a lot of podcasts so bear with me, but I really appreciate the. Invite. It's nice to get you now I've got you on and not messed it up. I messed it. Up. Yeah, Yeah, No, that's great. That's great. Well, what got me on the pest control, I'm finding out is not too uncommon from a lot of people. It kind of found me. I needed the work. I was a young, young father and I bugged. My neighbour was a pest control guy.

3:12 He had, you know, he was going out doing, doing work and stuff himself. And he had one other tech and I bugged him and bugged him because I needed work. I'm like, man, just whatever. I'll ride along with you. I'll, you know, bring the ladder in. I'll, you know, I'll help you carry the tools, whatever, right. And he's like, no, we're not hired. We're not hired. And I kept after it long enough that he finally said, OK, fine, you ride with me. And that's where that started and got interested in, in, you know, I was doing some bird exclusion and, you know, setting traps and kind of just doing the doing whatever.

3:53 And I went for my applicator's licence and got that. And then we were, I did some sales for them and things like that and then kind of built up a route and started there. Yeah. It's always been a thing in America since you when you first started these licences. It's always been a thing in America, licencing. As far as I know, I'm, I'm not an expert on licencing, but as in the 25 years or more that I've been doing this, you've always had to have a licence, yeah. I just thought I'd ask. It's different over here, as you know, It's yeah, they're like certificates.

4:39 They are like they never really run out. But if you're using Identicize and you don't want to redo your certificates and you're part of a trade body, you have to do 20 hours of continuous professional development and free Cru points. It's basically there are three points that are dedicated to writing using bait safely. Got it. But yeah, we have to have the CUSCUS to keep our licencing. So we had to we got to go and get the licencing and then you got to do the the regular study material to to keep it active.

5:20 Good. To hear it's I, I presume that's the same old stuff you have to do year on year. Does it ever change or not? What's that? The licencing. No, the content as in the the learning you do for. Your Oh yeah, sorry you cut out, yeah, the, the content, I think it changes a little bit, but there's a, there's a good amount of the same, same concept, same content, you know, technical and you got your rules and regs and your IPM and stuff like that. So, you know, it's good, it's a good, it's a good refresher.

6:05 It's good to keep up to date. And you know, I think they, they switch them around enough to where you're not doing the same, same studies over and over.

6:16 No, it's that's good to hear. Just it's just good to hear how how it's done in America, because guys here it's we had it. So, Oh, it used to be like, I'm in the MPTA, National Pest Technician Association and you have like basis prompt. Well, it's very kind of ruptured as such. But I've joined a different one called the British Pest Register and a lot of it is self registering. So, and there's no scheme. The BPCA has got one too where you can self register, where you can do any, any kind of learning you can put in.

6:58 So you can literally say, I don't know, say someone rings me or say someone comes over to see me a pest controller and we talk, talk pest control for an hour. There you go. That's. Oh, wow, That's one point. There you go. Oh, goodness. Yeah. Because I remember when I had the Book Books guy, who did I have on the guy from Book Books? I can't think of the name of mine. And then Alan Draper, that's it. He's he was mind blown that the podcast could be a point. And he was saying we need to change stuff.

7:37 We need to be more like you. It was mind blown that a podcast could be points. He was. Yeah, I'll be getting no points for this podcast here. It won't give me. Well, people will be on it. Welcome, Jasmine. Thanks for popping in, James, for your support. That's our, that's our new chair with the NPTA. Cheers. Yeah, she's doing good things. But yeah, it's good to hear. Good to hear how you got started for your So what you do nowadays is you kind of correct me if I'm wrong, in your consultancy firm, you specialised in the commercial pest control kind of end of things.

8:22 Is that is that correct? Yeah, I'm solely focused on commercial. So, you know, resorts and food processing universities, you know, LEED certified, which is like, you know, the green initiative here for building how they build buildings. And, you know, I'll follow the, you know, rules of IPM and yeah, it's fun. But Catherine's got a question. She says, does the content you need to learn on your your point, Does it vary state to state in America or is it all pretty much broad? Although do you know?

9:09 The content for licencing. Yeah, there's CPD points you have to do each year. Yeah, so you, you're required, you're required to get a certain amount of hours in each category. So your, your technical, your rules and regs and your IPM hours. And so that all, you know, stems from, you know, mixing pesticides safely to using them safely to, you know, schools, what to do, what not to do, how to report, you know, and then technical, obviously with, you know, egg cycle and, you know, life, you know, the insects and rodents, you know, the biology and stuff like that.

9:52 So yeah. Yeah, that's, that's, that's good to say that it's just thought I should ask. But you're, you're because it's obviously you're such a big country compared to us. Like the way it goes in Britain is it's literally apart from Scotland and Wales. If you live in England, it's pretty much all the same over the Hulk. Board it. Is as I can. Imagine state to state like like I believe that you have 8 agents that can pull you over and check your vehicles for chemicals and. Stuff. Not a thing here.

10:28 Not a thing. Oh, wow. Unless the police think you've nicked something and look for your van, like, yeah, it's not a thing. That's not No. Not yet, anyway. Yeah, yeah, they're pretty strict here and in California, I think California, I think California and New York are probably your hardest or most managed, you know, pest control out there. They definitely are. UK need to stop looking at California. It's highly annoying. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is so. You deal, you deal with commercial a lot, but do you do a lot of audits or do you actually do pest control for food businesses or do you do mixture of both?

11:18 Yeah. So most of my career, you know, I started out as a technician running a route through Napa Valley doing high end wineries and resorts and things like that. And also a mixture of, you know, quality control on those facilities and, and sales. You know, I, I was in sales for a lot. So that's where I got my background. And so I, I do have the actual boots on the ground experience and going into this consulting thing. I'm not actually doing treatments and or regular route work, mostly inspecting and finding the gaps.

12:05 You know the for lack of better words. Is that like Det? Like they do it here as well. Say there's a say there's a site that has to be audited for regulatory reasons to do with food safety, because we have like BRC and, and all that we have. But you come in and like do a pre audit to make sure the pest control company's doing their job before they actually get audited. Is that kind? Did you do you do that kind of thing? That is a server. That is a service I provide. Yes. Go through and review all their, all their documents, review all their notes, do a site evaluation on all the devices, the mapping, you know, all that stuff.

12:55 Make sure it's all online. Yeah. Well, that's, that's good. That's kind of it's what happens over it is it's kind of they see it as a I've had a few people do that on the podcast. They say they see it as a fresh set of eyes on something another technician may not have seen. But you can come in fresh eyed, not realise you know because it's a new site, whereas a lot of texts can get used to the same site. Probably don't notice everything. It gets very routine. It gets very routine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely does it does.

13:32 So with what do you reckon in, in this year in 2026. So a lot of a lot of pest control companies, you don't have to name companies, but what do you think companies go wrong with in doing commercial pest control? Because obviously here it's, it's so annoying. It's probably the same in America, but I struggle with like getting clients because they're just so focused on what's the cheapest price and it's so annoying. It really is. You try and give them the, because of the, of the ask you, I want the, I want this, I want that.

14:12 And then you're like, and then you don't get it and you find out that they didn't really want all that. They just want the cheapest price, right. Is it, did you experience that over there or is it? Yeah, yeah. It's it's a lot like that. I think the industry, you know, has its has its place in that and I think the customer has their place in that. You know, they, they drive the, you know, they send out the request for proposal they want typically, you know, they want good service a customer does, but then it's a price thing a lot of times, right?

14:54 And then you have the bigger, the bigger corporations, the globals that come in way low on the price, right? So they can get it, which then drives that mindset of like, I can get it cheaper, I can get, you know, whatever. So you know, partly, partly the customer because they only know what they know, right? You, you kind of you kind of like in the the afterthought. Oh, Oh yeah, we need pest control. Get somebody in here to come spray our ants, right? Like it's not really a educated guess, right?

15:31 So you got that problem and then it's reactive, not, not proactive for sure. And then you have the the pest companies that are route based, right? So when you're route based, you have to get so many stops done each month. You don't have time to do what I do on my side where I can spend whatever time I need to to solve a problem, to find the past, you know, identify the species, know what materials and mode of actions to use. You know, all that stuff like the technician comes and cheques the devices and, and a lot of times you're lucky if you get a note that says, you know, thank you.

16:14 I checked the devices and you know, there's some good small, smaller to medium sized companies out there that really, really care and want to do good. But usually by the time I get called in, there's, you know, there's not a lot of data to understand what's going on. So I have to dig in, dig in and find out what's going on. So. No, I totally get it because I've never worked for a big firm or anything like that. But I have heard stories of people getting, you know, 15 stops a day or 10 stops a day and they haven't really got the time to do a great job.

16:52 But what they did in England, I'm not, I'm not mentioning any company names, but what are the bigger companies? Did they brought in this new, this new role called escalation manager, right. So what it is is, is I don't mention names, obviously, but a lot of them, as you know, they give the technicians no time, right? In comes the escalation manager with his Cape and and like source. So they make the technicians look like they're stupid and they're not. They just haven't got the time. Thank them in, send them a load of services to sort the issues out.

17:34 And that's kind of became a new thing a couple of years ago, making escalation managers. And that's effectively what he was. He's a sales guy. Yeah, that's really, that's really what what it is. It's not right making them look silly when they could actually do the job themselves, but it is what it is. But do you have found America Escalation Manager? Have you ever heard of it? Yeah, I mean, the word escalation or escalation manager gets thrown around a little bit, you know, quality, quality control field manager, you know, those, those types of things.

18:10 Those are the guys that come in and and you know, talk with the customer and hopefully they don't badmouth the technician. Cause again, the technician's just doing, doing his job, trying to, trying to do the best he can with the time he has. But yeah, it's typically a salesperson and they're, they're typically, you know, they're to, to smooth it over and then try to, you know, bump it up a little bit. And it's still never really, it's still never really effective. Because what I've seen in those roles is, you know, those guys often end up getting to, you know, having to run route when too many of the technicians are out.

18:53 So then they're not effective in doing quality control and like checking up and all that as well, right? So kind of multifaceted position. It's a, it's a name, but not necessarily a a solid, solid position. You know to to the end of it, you know, end of the problem. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you obviously can get good, you know, commercial clients, you can get ones that are willing to pay for that, you know, that value where they actually get and they work with you. And when you rate recommendations, they they act upon the recommendations because I believe some sites, if you don't act upon the recommendations, they get slapped by the auditors saying what you're doing.

19:36 It's on the paperwork or the digital report. They are, but they are. We've got 36 commercial sites, but I'd love to get more. But it's, it's, it's you know how to sell it. You know, it's a lot of the time it's, I'm not the most experienced, but I'm, I've been trying. But it's like you got, I ask them what's your biggest concern. And that's why I ask a lot. It helps get to the, I've got a few questions to ask. But yeah, it's always down to price, it seems. But I imagine what you bigger insights, you've got higher insights where it's not all about the price, it's about the value.

20:17 Because it can't be. It can't be every client. It's just price driven, surely? I'm pretty sure that there is people out there that will pay for that value. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think for me, so I'm, I'm a little bit of AI, don't know, kind of Snooty, I guess you would say. I don't want your business if you're not willing to do the work and pay what needs to be paid, right? So I, I'm not going to go chase your account if you want the, the cheapest dollar, right? And I think everybody would, I think everybody would agree with that and say, say they, they say the same thing.

20:58 The one thing I know like as a small business, you're a small to medium sized business, you know, you have to be, you have to have the bells and whistles, right? Meaning the digital portal, the the scanning, you know, whatever, whatever be IQ sensing cameras, you know, whatever the, the, the newest technology, the best way to report and and track. You have to be capable to do those things as a small company. Otherwise you won't even be in the room with these large commercial facilities, right? So the larger commercial facilities, it's not necessarily price all the time, it's whether or not you show up in a way that that conveys the confidence that you have done this and you know how to do it and, or if you don't, you have the resources to figure it out.

21:53 I think that's part of it too. And a lot of it's being in the right, in the right rooms. You know, a lot of the stuff that I did was, you know, in business groups here, we've got a, a business group called BOMA, you know, building owners and managers Association, right? So I'm, I'm lunching with all of these facility managers and people, right. So, and you're not trying to sell them anything. You're just trying to keep the salad out of your teeth and not look like a goof when you're there. You know, you just, you build friendships and then they remember you and yeah.

22:29 No, that's what I mean. I've I've recently, I mean something like that, like a it's a government funded one, but in my area and the council, but yeah, it's all free. It's not one of these you pay to be in the club kind of things. Very much pay. Pay to be in the everything here you pay. You pay everything dearly for everything here. Pretty much nothing's free. And this one's funded, but it, it's got a lot of lessons, like not all related to pest control, but they are things that pest control pest control firms should know.

23:08 It's like there was a, I've still got to do it, proper sales forecasting, A seminar, got all the notes on it. And there's a lot of things where they teach you actually about business, you know, and I think that's a miss. A lot of, I'm not saying every pest control owner is like this, but a lot of a lot of pest controllers don't know the basics on business. Oh, they're making money, but they could be making more. They could be yeah, there's, there's a lot to it. You know, I always say I I know a lot of things and I don't know everything.

23:44 And so, you know, I know a little bit of about business and I'm doing well in my business, but I'm a firm believer in hiring people that are smarter than me and they can take it to the next level. So or learning it, spending the time learning it myself, if I, you know, if I don't have somebody to do it, you know. Oh, definitely. It's like I thought I knew a lot when I walked into the dating. What's this, this, this, this. And he gave me loads of things to work on. I thought, I don't know, I don't know.

24:15 But I've worked on a lot of it. And he's he, he got me to introduce a new service into the business. He says we've got a grant, a 2000 LB grant. Can you think of a new service? And by the next meeting, I thought of it a drain camera I had. We now have that drain camera now we do, but it's a signal gone there. Hang on, he's frozen. Thanks Jason for popping in mate. I think he's are you there? Are you? There are. You there, Warren, There you are. Hey, Ryan, you're back there You are. Sorry. Yeah, it's fine.

25:00 It's fine. You're back. You're back now. Welcome, Jason. Thanks for popping in. But now we've got, we've got a drain camera now so we can look at the drains for rodent ingress points. So how's that going? It's going all right, but it's early days because obviously we're not known for doing it. We are trying to get some more interest, but yeah, it's, I, I, I checked, but we, we checked my dad's drains because at work with my dad, his drains were fine. So we've still got to bring it over to my house and check my drains.

25:30 I've got no issues though. I'd I'd know if I did. Well, you know, it's, it's funny because I think a lot of the customers don't think of that as a potential rodent entry point, right? A lot of times, a lot of times, I think more in the UK, you guys think about that more than we do here. It's 9080 to 90% of UK homes if we've got a rat infestation. In the lawn from underneath that. Would be a train fault because but sadly here's the thing about I'm not mentioning no names again. Right. Big national water companies tell people there's no rats in the summers.

26:08 Lies, lies. But there is drainage people too that work in the business that also swear the same thing. Yeah, yeah. Put a put a put a monitor camera in there and watch them run around well. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. But no. I love that when somebody thinks that, Oh no, it couldn't be, it would never be. And then I put a camera in, I watch, and then they go, oh, I guess it could be. But it's it's, I think our draining systems are very different to what yours are though, in America, because I've heard that your systems are closed, don't they?

26:44 Because when you open up our manholes, they're not really close to such that could literally run up a run into someone's straightening sewer system, could run into someone's main underneath them, but they'd only be able to get in if there was a if there was a break in the line, though, you see. Well, they come through the toilets here and through the floor drains, right, so. Yeah. So, yeah, we've had a lot of that recently. You know what they seem to target is the it's probably different over there.

27:17 I don't know. But in the UK for some reason, they put this stupid flexi white pipe behind the toilet and the rat, she's straight through it into the house, of course, But we've had no end to people ring UPS about that recently. We've solved we've solved a couple, but I've had a few plumbers. I made a post and they said we're getting no end to this. Next time we next time we we have that, we'll we'll ring you. We will I say trains and and, and Darren Pierce turned all right, mate, he's a proper trained guy.

27:54 He is all right, but yeah, a lot of it recently. Yeah, I, I had AI used the Rat Gate from William over there from the Rat Gate company. I used it on a site here. Oh. Rat, OH. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Great product, great product. So I I solved the problem. You know, I figured out that they were, they were coming in through the through the drain. We popped a manhole in the street and three rats ran out of the lateral line that was going to the building. And you know, this is after the pest company had tried and tried and said, oh, you got to keep your doors closed.

28:33 That's where they're coming in. And it's not. So we put the rag gate on that lateral line and literally no more rats. And it's been 2 years now. At least it's. It's good, it's a good product, but obviously when you've got the camera, you can't actually look if it's any faults because if you've got if you've got faults, that's the drain camera. They could come out in the faults and go stay up still. But as long as long as you know that the lines are fine, the rack gates work fine. It's a good product out of all of them.

29:05 I've tested loads of them and the best quality I think in the UK in my opinion, out of all of them is, is the rack gate. It's a really good product. We've tried loads of them and in the end it's it's the, it's a better product. If you ask me, it is. Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing with the drain stuff or the, the sewer system, I'm going to have to take a class on, you know, sewer systems and and plumbing and all that stuff. Because you know, I, I'll have a, a company come out and run the cameras through the through the lines to find any brakes and things like that.

29:42 Because I'll. Ask you a question. Yeah. Does that company understand rats in the drains or they just understand the drains? They just understand the drains and they can they can tell me if they're like there's abandoned lines or if there's cracks in the lines. I'm usually with them watching the camera so I can pinpoint anything pest control wise, you know, because. Because there's a lot of companies in the UK that they understand drains and drainage and water and all that, right? I'm only going off what I'm told, but not all of them know about rats in drains.

30:18 Because sometimes when you're doing drains, when you're doing water and it goes a certain way, doesn't it? Because rats can run up both ways. It doesn't really matter where they go. They can run with. They can. They can do whatever they want to do. But yeah, no, a lot of them are redundant lines. You're right, it can be a redundant line that causes the problem. Yeah, can't be, but I'm no expert. I'm I'm still. Getting me neither. I like your videos, so I, I, you know, I like to see you exploring that and, and, and taking it to the next, taking it to the next level.

30:52 You know, I mean that's, that's what the customers need, right? Well, yeah, when I actually get some actual proper jobs, I'm going to video, I'm going to video them and there'll be loads of videos up, but I've got to get the work. I am trying my best, you know, I've got to get experience on me though, you know, but but yeah, it's, it is trying to solve the problem. And like now we're offering. I wasn't a massive proofing fan, but proofing exclusion. We call it proofing. But now we're starting to tell people we can do this starting the other because I'm, I'm not the best of salesman, but if I tell them this could solve the problem.

31:32 We also could look at your drains and we can eliminate all different areas and vents and stuff. So we are actively pushing it now. Just that I was never I felt, I felt like I was, you know, just trying to make money out of it. But then someone says to me, you shouldn't see it like that. You should see that you're trying to fix that problem and eliminating every other Ave isn't a sales pitch as such because you're trying to solve the problem, not just that ego, it spend US money. And you're right.

32:03 But yeah, it's about solving the problem. So that's what we're doing in a minute to do that. We are. Yeah, I think, you know, people will see your authenticity. You know, they'll, they'll know that you're concerned about the situation. You really want to you want to solve it. And as long as you come through that way, I think the sale is made. You know, the ones that are out there, sales sharks, as I would, you know, call them that are just trying to sell you anything and everything. You know, they're, they're used to that.

32:40 And so when you come through and you're honest and you're, you know your past biology and you know what you're talking about and then you say, this is what it's going to take. Usually the sales made at that point when they trust you and they know you're you care. Exactly what I think it's made in America. We've got a new thing now. It's an excluder, rat and mouse thing. I don't know. I think it's I think, I think they're from America. You can play. In defence to measure, yeah, the whole yeah. I think, I think it's from America.

33:19 Yeah, I think that's something a bell. Is that a Bell Labs thing or is that an excluder? That's excluder. Excluder. Yeah, yeah, they did door sweeps and and all the exclusion mash and stuff like that. Yeah, I bought it obviously from England because they obviously when the shops buy it, they probably buy it in bulk. I'm actually for America, but I just bought one just to see what it were like and I've not tested it on a client yet, but I have. Let's have a look. But that's never talked to Darren.

33:53 I'm happy to go on a few jobs for you, Sean. Cheers. Yeah, I. Forgot a name?

34:01 Yeah, I don't use the excluder so much. I I use a I've got AI use a mirror and a flashlight and that's that's usually all I need for my inspections. So I go through and I find every hole the size of my pink here thumb, get that mirror up underneath things and behind things and and then I take photos of it and I get it all documented and and that's that's how I do it. Nice, because I've also got an end. Oh, I forgot the name of it. Now I've got a camera that's that's got got a endoscope. Endoscope.

34:43 Yeah, it's like quite. But technically I could use that as well. Put that through and then endoscope. Is it called endoscope? Yeah, I think it's an endoscope. Horoscope, Horoscope. Endoscope. What do you call it? Endoscope. Endoscope. I've had a hard time with mine. I, you know, I bought a cheaper one. It was like 150 bucks or something like that. And the end doesn't move. So it's just this long cable that I fish in there and you know, I'm trying to get it to show on the camera and you know, it's, it's hit or miss.

35:16 I, I use it. I've got a ferret that is a small camera like this. Yeah, we've got one of them too. It works. It works fair for some things. I've got a bunch of different tools that I use, thermal cams and cameras and all those things, but not all of them, you know, work every time. I'm always trying to pull something out of my hat and it's like, well, I could have probably just told you. That was an entry point right there. Oh. Definitely like the thermals, they came in handy last year. Because you've heard that the Ficam D's been removed, haven't you?

35:52 For what's? That yeah, yeah, yeah. I used that a couple of times because you've got to make sure you've, I did, I did the treatment from inside instead of outside because there was no point doing it outside. There is a video of that one where I show you it, I show you it go cold, all the heat, the heat source and I and I'll show you it after and it's all blue. But I had to I had to use that there because the way because even in the video I even show you where they're going in and there's no way dost would have touched it right.

36:22 But you know, it did take longer for the actual wasp to disappear as such, because it kept going up thinking, thinking it was stare, but it worked and it worked. It did work. And then Andrew Zanefsky for the save. It's the fit tool from its Oh. Right, Andrew? That's it, There he is, There he is. Coast to coast, coast to coast. The man, the myth, the legend. Yes, he's in the buildings. Yes. You never know. I might get on that podcast one day, Andrew. You never know. Saying that, though, there's there's more chance of Gabe coming on this podcast.

36:58 Do you know who Gabe is? Gabe Seymour. Yeah. He's one of the hosts. It's always a joke because me and the Beauties and Beasties podcast from the UK, we've both been trying to get Gabe to come on. He just he's he's that busy. We're like, we won't game on. But it's a really joke whenever Andrew's on Auk podcast, Where's game? I tried, I tried to get him on, you know, but so we've obviously commercial size is in America. Is digital becoming a big thing when it comes to monitoring devices? Because I did.

37:43 I did a trial with Syngenta, a trial with Your Choice Digital 24/7. It was a trial of funding by Syngenta through the MPTA, and my review of it was basically that if I had the right client willing to pay for it, I'd be able to. But the problem is it's like when the monitoring blocks were going missing, I wasn't sure. So 50 odd activations could have been half of the blocks. But because it was a trial, I obviously was going back and it wasn't costing. But it's working out and I just said they could do with some kind of amber or measuring thing to see how much has actually gone because it was it was hard to gauge.

38:36 I'm not used to all this digital stuff like in boxes. And I just said that the good product where they could do with some upgrades, potentially camera or I think I may have said a way to gauge how much bait bait or or monitoring block has actually gone. You know, have you tried that one or have you heard of that one? I've heard of quite a few of of these ones that you know what I use for my, for me is the Bell Labs cause Bell has been in the industry for so long and the IQ sensing has been a thing for quite a while.

39:19 So they've worked out a lot of the kinks and the devices are sturdy and, and you know, easy. It's all very easy for me. The other ones that I've I've looked at, there's a lot of good technology coming out. And so I, I'm not saying that any of them are not good. What I'm saying is it's, it's a little harder to adapt those into your day-to-day because they haven't necessarily figured out all the kinks yet. I like the real time alert idea, you know, trap goes off and attacks the technician. I like the weight idea, you know, weighing the bait and understanding how much they've eaten.

39:58 There was. One on, what's his name, Adam Holt on the podcast. And he said, yeah, but he worked for Pest Sense and he said that that that device there actually weighs the bait. And how much has gone? You mentioned that he did. Yeah, I I like that concept. I think, I think the pest sense is a is a good product. The the the hardware wasn't necessarily for me necessarily, but the the idea is good.

40:32 I get more off of the events, the time stamps then I do whether the bait has been eaten or not. So I, I typically use a combination effect on when I, when I'm doing rodent control is, you know, mixture of video surveillance and a mixture of digital tracking devices to where I can see 'cause, you know, just 'cause you have a station there that tracks digitally doesn't mean the rodents going to go in it, right? So I watch them run right by the station and they say, well, we don't have any, we don't have any events.

41:08 There's nothing in the station, nothing in the trap bait's not getting eaten. And so the cameras prove that, you know, a different, you know, show a different story. So it's a combination. But if you've got a good digital system where you can see the events and the time stamps and you can, you can trend that information to where, you know, you know, 2:00 AM in the morning at that loading dock, there's always activity, right? You know, like, well, the doors always open, you know, or at that time it's when they get their deliveries or they have big events on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

41:47 But the rest of the week it's quiet. But then you see your trends like Tuesdays and Thursdays, they're they're eating, you know, they're eating a lot, you know, So I kind of use it for that. And I do think that's the way pest control is going. I think we have to be mindful of the data, the species that we're dealing with and understanding that stuff. And back to what you were saying about getting the customers to pay for that, I made a decision when I came into this thing that that's the service that I provide.

42:20 I'm not, I'm not catering to whether the customer will pay for it or not. And the reason for that is I want to have the information at my fingertips to where I can make the best educated decision on their, their pest management treatments. And so I'm going to use it regardless of whether they're paying for it. And sometimes that comes a little out of my pocket and that's OK because at the end of the day, I've got more information to use than the average pest company. Yeah. No, I mean they say it is moving towards data as well.

42:55 It is. It's, it's, do you think it's our point where it is? Because obviously there's tonnes of products on the market, Yeah. Do you think it will get to a point where every product will work great because they're all different, They're all, it's a mine. I'll be honest, without the experience, it is a minefield as to what to even used because obviously everyone will all say my product's great, but it's a hard one until you try it and try it and things like that. It's it's difficult, but I can see why you're going for Bell because that product has been out a while.

43:37 So it's been tried and tested, but there's always new things coming out, isn't there? There is. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, with the Bell System, I wish there was, you know, some I I wish there was some real time alert stuff. You know, there's, there's a lot of companies that are doing the real time alerts and I think they're working towards that. I think that's going to be valuable for the, the everyday technician service wise. But yeah, everybody's going to say their, their product's the best and it doesn't, it does all these things.

44:14 And really what I what I do in my business is I look at the end user data. So what does the customer see on their stuff? And, and a lot of these newer devices out there, they don't have the, the portal set up to where it's actually useful for the, for the customer that's reviewing the stuff. So Bell, you know, has a decent user interface where they can see the time stamps and the activities and the captures and all that. So it could be better, But I think it's, it's for me, it, it, it works. And I think, I think everybody's going to have their own.

44:55 How do they implement it into their, their organisation, right? That's a whole nother ball game, right? When you've got, you know, 10 texts versus 200 texts and you're going to go digital. And then so you better make the right decision at the gate because you know, trying to roll that out and you don't want to have to go through all the all the trials and errors and then find out that it's not going to work the way you the way you need it to. Oh, exactly. It's. But with that being said, I imagine that you you within your what you do you also use AI?

45:34 Do you use AI?

45:38 No, I don't. I actually for the cameras when when it's needed, I will actually watch the videos and distinguish whether it's a male or female, juvenile, adult, whatever, and I'll. It's not ready, it's not about. I didn't mean AI Cam as I meant like when you're doing your reporting, do you use AI to help you write it better? Things like that. Do you? Do you do? That a little bit. A little bit, Yeah. I'm not, I'm, you know, my spelling's not great and, you know. We all do that. We all. Yeah, a lot.

46:14 A lot it. Gives me a little bit of gives me a little bit of help here and there for sure for the for the reports, but a lot of times it's not, you know, really what I want to say. So I'll have to delete a bunch and add more. Yeah, talk to your phone or tablet, tell it what you roughly want to say, and ask them to rewrite it professionally. And usually it comes out fine. Yeah, usually you can obviously check you bought. Most of the time for me, it comes out fine, but I've only recently started to use it and it's AI hate the words.

46:47 I hate it. It's a game changer. I don't like it when it comes. I don't like it when it comes to pest control products. When people say that I hate it, I'm like, that's a red. That's a red flag that is, but, but it works. My, my, my treatment reports, etcetera looks so much more professional on proposals. They look great now because of that. As long as it's not a a generic note that is put on every every service tag right? I I see that a lot when I'm reviewing audits. So when I'm. Yeah, when I'm reviewing notes from text, a lot of the notes are the same note.

47:27 And I'm like, well, it's a different building and you're making the same. That's it. Oh, no, I change it from place to place. Exactly. I do do that, yeah. Yeah, AI helps it it. It can help for sure. AI is not good on ID in insects though, I know that. No. You put it into Google, anything brown it will say you got my books. Yeah, yeah. It's not good at I'm doing ID in. It's not no, no. It gets the honey bees right. It does on that, but a lot of bugs it just you see, you see to look, you do. You'd be surprised how many people like, like everyone says, oh, they love bees and they do.

48:08 But I've had it where the customer said I've got wasp nest. All right, then where are they? They're there. I said they're honey bees. No, no, the Wasps, the honey bees and they're arguing message that I said they are 100% and E BS. Generally it doesn't happen much now because generally we just asked them, could you please take a clear photograph on WhatsApp and we can tell them because if I turn up, I'm not doing it obviously and and I'll charge them for coming. Oh well. Do you, do you have a bee?

48:47 You have beekeepers that come and remove them safely. Yeah, I've got people that obviously they're not really beekeepers that do them. They're they are in the ain't because sometimes people think they're going to get a beekeeper because the beekeeper's going to come and take away for free. Now my mate Martin does that. Marty Belcher, he's a good guy, but he also does proper bee removable, you know, because sometimes you've got to get a scaffold up, you've got to take the chimney down. People don't realise this can cost.

49:21 That's a big job, yeah. So yeah, we do. We do recommend people and stuff like that to do the work, yes. Yeah, because you don't want to just go kill the bees, you know, we want to keep them alive. And don't do that I. Don't. That's important. Yeah, we don't do that because someone asked me why and I explained it to them once, he says. I says, OK, all right, just think about this. He says, say you killed the bees. I says, yeah, it's not just them bees you've killed. What do you mean? He says, well, what happens if like say there's like 6710B hives in this area or more and it says they can smell honey.

49:59 So they come nick in. That's what they do, don't they? They're nick honey. They go, they go in there and then they come out covered in powder and you could go back and infect all them hives and then it's and then you could wipe out. Oh, right. Now you put it that way. I get it. Yeah, that's kind of why it's just because it's not good to do it anyway. But you can actually infect. Yeah, low thousands more you can. Yeah. But sometimes you just got to explain it a different way. You have because. Sometimes, yeah, it's important to to to not let the customer dictate what because they freak out, right?

50:41 They just want them gone and they may even try to spray them themselves. And you know, it's like, no, keep, keep them alive. Keep them alive. There's certain periods when they start swarming. Yeah. And generally we just say, I know it's scary. They're in your garden. Yeah. Give it a couple of hours or give it to the morning. And they, they, some of them ring back saying thank you. They're gone. That was my favourite, one of my favourite things as a technician when I first started the, the owner of the company, he did, you know, swarm removal.

51:17 So we'd get calls and I'd go put the box there. I'm just a newbie tech, you know, I'd go put the box there, poke the holes, you know, in there and get the queen and you know, whatever, get them in there. And then they would fill up. I come back the next day. I would take that box to the beekeeper lady and she had a whole, a whole plexiglass hive in her barn where she taught me about how they do their directional, you know, the, the butt wiggle thing to tell, tell the other ones. You know, how far, what direction the hunt, you know, the food is whatever.

51:53 And, and so anyway, I'd, I'd bring her the hive, you know, the bees and she'd give me a jar of honey And I, and I thought that was the coolest thing ever. I was like, man, I'm saving the bees and I'm getting a jar of honey and I get to see these, these this beautiful hive. You know, she had a tube coming out the, the barn and like this whole, it must have been 4 feet by three feet, you know, at least a, you know, a big plexiglass wall full of bees. It was really neat. Oh nice. I mean to be fair, that's what Martin does.

52:28 My mate Martin is a Mansfield way and he he actually will go say say built. These are actually outside someone's house, just sitting there. He will go and do that. Yeah. He's a very brave man. I've seen him a pic. I've seen him. I've seen a picture of him. Yeah, before, without a suit on. And they they haven't touched him. I don't get it, man. I don't. Get it? But he has got the suit, obviously. But. I can't do it. I can't do I see these people with the with the B beard or the, you know, their corona.

52:59 I I I always suit up because I just. And that that that guy on you on Facebook and YouTube, that he's a bee guy. But he's like, he calls them murder, murder bees. Have you ever seen him? No, he does. He does murder bees. No, because you know the Africanized. Have you ever heard? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that killers. He goes after them and he actually kills them. He does. I almost got a job doing that in in Southern California. I thought it would be cool. The Africanized. Oh I I want to do that. I hope they never come here because they sound like they they kill people.

53:36 It's weird. The the what they say is someone genetically altered them to make them more productive with honey, right? I don't know if it's right, but it it did work. However, it made some massively aggressive and they just attack. So I know I don't know if it's true, but that's what I was told about them. Interesting. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't know. Why would you mess with nature? I don't know if that's true you. Know right, Right. Seems a bit. I don't get it, but I. Don't you've seen those Japanese Hornets, right?

54:11 That'll, they'll fly at you and then they, they tuck their, their back end forward and they'll, they'll squirt the venom at you. They're, they're like 2 inches. They're, they're huge, terrifying. We've actually got some Hornets like that. Oh, really? Asian Hornets are in the UK. Oh God, terrifying. So they're not. They're not. We're not allowed to touch them. Basically. Currently in the UKU KB unit or a one of the agencies, they deal with it, the beekeepers or whatever. We could. They're not. They're not a beneficial why?

54:53 Why would you not be able to touch them? Not the no, but no. They're the only ones that are allowed to kill them, not us. Interesting. But it's not math. They're not on maths yet, but I do. The numbers are suggesting that they are established. That's certain. People certain. From what I understand, certain groups don't want to admit that they've lost. They've lost a fight, right? Or that Jersey lost a fight, France lost a fight. Another here. Well, let's pass that's. When you when you all use, when you all use the same method.

55:32 I wonder why it's not working. Sure, there's that. And also we're never going to win against nature like all of the, you know, the rodents, the the, the yellow jackets, the Wasps. Like we can have some success, but like, you know. It will be a future feature service in the UK. It will be Asian Hornets will be a future service. Wow, it will be. Not yet, but in years to come, I imagine it will be. Yeah. It just shows that they don't just have to be in warm climates. I won't call England England warm.

56:08 Well, I'm. Excited to see your videos once you start going after them well. I've never even I've never done. I do watch videos but I don't do them of me actually doing them. I do like the before pitch video and the after picture when they're pissed off usually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do but but no but it's it's crazy. It's pest control world, isn't it? It is. It's been a, it's been a, it's been a good run so far. It definitely is. It's, it's there any tips you could give people on how to be better in commercial pest control?

56:51 You know, in the sense about any tips you could give people in how to do it because. Yeah, the, you know, the, the number one thing I would say is know the species you're dealing with when you find it, know the mode of action of the material you're using or whether or not you need to use the material. Might just be a sanitation thing. Don't be a technician, right? Don't. Just don't just come and check the boxes. The stations, Warren, don't be a box. Kicker don't be a box kicker. No spray and pray.

57:30 You know right, You know document why, where, when? What did you do when you found it? You know what? What are the next step? Lead the service. Don't don't just do the service, leave the service. So you know, I know you're in a route and you got to get to your next job, but what does this what does this building need now that you found what you found right there? Now there's now there's more steps. And so now it's more communication and more involvement. And so you can't just say, hey, I found a mouse in the station or change the blue board or change it when you don't guys don't do blue board.

58:10 But but you can't just say I found a mouse and I removed it. Thank you very much for the service, right? Like what did you do? Did you inspect? Did you find openings? What's your next step? Right, And understanding, you know, a lot of this digital stuff with the trends are great, but if the technician doesn't review the trends and so you know, so you don't know that every March or April we're getting a an influx of Oriental roaches or American, you know, understanding. And I think what is sprig talks a lot about this is predictive pest management.

58:50 So it's not just doing the service, it's it's understanding what's coming and, and preventing that from happening through, you know, obviously sanitation and you know all that. So, you know, in that regard, you know, get everybody involved on, you know, at the, at the business, you know, on your, your account as well, you know, so some of those things, that's that's what I'd recommend. Yeah, that that's that's some good tips there. Louise, it can someone said this. I don't know who it is, but it's now you that it's a LinkedIn person.

59:28 It's not coming. I don't know how you say that. Technician. Technician. They're they're, they're. Yeah. Instead of a technician, it's a technician. It's probably someone I know but some reason sometimes on stream yard it starts not giving the names out. Yeah, I think you know, you like you said, you call you guys call them box kickers. The word technician floats around here quite a bit. I didn't invent it, but yeah, it's just the person that just does the routine and it's really not thinking forward on where that account's going, right?

1:00:02 But exactly, it's like you've got different names. It's like in here. I hate the name though. But a lot of pest controls call other pest controls pesties. I hate it. But in America it's cheese bags, isn't it? Is that right? No, I don't. I've never heard that. Haven't you? No. I'm an American group called Cheesebank PCHD Group. Like a meme. It's like a meme group. Oh, it's Dan. Dan Trainer. Cheers, mate. Dan Trainer. He's been on. He's been on the podcast. Yeah, yeah. I I think I talked to him yesterday.

1:00:40 He's yeah, yeah, yeah. Deanne, I got his book. I'm going to read his book. I need to get the book I'm in. I'm in it. Oh, yeah, I saw you on the first page. You were, you did the recommendation. You're you're famous. I know. Hang on. I'm in the book. In America. Yes, I'm in. Woo Hoo. There it is. Famous. That's it. Well. That's so, you know, when I read, when I read what you said about his book, I was like, well, now I now I know I got the right book. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm excited. I'm. Excited. I need to get that book.

1:01:13 Actually I don't. I was meaning to get it but there but you know. I think you got a free signed copy coming from Dan now since you made it to America. Well, you know, I've had to be even bigger now, walking around past events. Are my books in America signed? That's right, that's right. I make a hoodie. Yeah, but now it's. No, it's not. She's been speaking to him. He's a good guy. I've not met him in person yet, but maybe one day I will. Yeah, I will. Yeah, I will. What else? Is there anything else you wanted to mention?

1:01:53 That's all, Warren. No, I think, you know, we covered a wide, vast of, of things. I mean, you, you know, you and I and just about every pest controller could talk for hours on, on all the different things in pest control because it's such a wonderful industry. You know, it's wide. It's, it's everybody's got a story. Nobody knows everything. Everybody's learning right along with right. And the pet and the pests are laughing all the way trying to trying to beat us every day, you know, So it's a great industry to be in for sure.

1:02:34 It definitely is, but if you want your points, pay for when you're in the British pass register, put that code in and you'll you'll get a point for watching this podcast, you will. Now. Say there you go, you've contributed to someone's learning. I love it, I love it. Hopefully they'll learn something. So where? Where can people find you? Do you want to hit you up on a? LinkedIn Linkedin's always good. The website ryanpestconsulting.com, you schedule time on my calendar if you want to chat.

1:03:16 I'm probably. I'm usually at Pest World every year, yeah. Oh, I've heard so much about Pest World. It's. Quite. It's quite a, it's quite a show. It's really, really good. We have big events here. I mean, what I'm going to do next this month is big, but it's nothing compared to that pest world. It's massive. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's something, yeah, I really enjoy it. Good to hear. Good to hear. That is. Yeah, there's for that. Dan. He's going to put one in the posts for me. You'll get loads from open out of that because you know what I'm like.

1:03:59 Yeah, I'll be like making a video. Look, I'm in the book. You must buy. I'm in the book. Buy the book. You must buy it. You must but but yes, so, so thanks. I'll tell you what, Who else would you like to see on this podcast? Have you got anyone you could recommend or any kind of person or any kind of field you'd like to see personal?

1:04:25 Not off hand. I would have to. I would have to think about it. If you think of any. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll shoot you. I'll I'll shoot you a message. Yeah, definitely are. So thanks for coming on. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it, Sean. Yeah, no, it's good. So you should be booked for the next two months now. So we've been coming on this podcast. You'll be booked up. Yeah, yeah. Maybe like I said, it's it's something that I I don't do a lot. I'm I'm camera shy as you speak or.

1:05:00 I think you've done a really good job of making it well. Thank you you've. Been on the camera much longer than your previous podcast and not? Yeah, and that was my first podcast ever. This is my second podcast and I probably won't watch it because I hate to hear myself talking so. This, This is a thing. This is the thing, because it is. But I can. You've got to appreciate that. I've been podcasted a long time. So you can, you can hear yourself talk and watch yourself, and you're good. Yeah, maybe.

1:05:30 Maybe I'll grow to grow to be OK with. It it's something Andrew Snessky told me to do. Try and watch it and or at least listen to it. Yeah, I don't listen to every episode. Don't get me wrong. I don't. It's still a bit weird to hear yourself. Yeah, but I've got to say, if I've messed a mic up and stuff, people sometimes tell me after. Yeah, why didn't you tell me? I could have, could have adjusted it, you know? So. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So. Well, man, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on.

1:06:00 I know you you don't do this often so I don't really appreciate it. Give it up your time. Yeah. Thank you. So thanks everyone and I'll see you all next week. Very good. Thanks. Thanks.