🎙️ Pest Perspectives Podcast EP 42 – George Jolliffe (G&L Recruitment Consultants) - Pest Perspectives

Hello and welcome to Pest Perspectives, episode number 42.

Not #43 like it says on all the feeds, a couple of weeks break

because I couldn't do it last week, but I basically, I guess

couldn't make it. So it doesn't matter.

You know, you've had 4041 episodes this year, you've had

two podcasts a week sometimes. So there's plenty of that for

you to catch up on. But this week for episode 42, I

have George Joliff from GL Recruitment Consultants.

How you doing, George? Very well.

Thank you, Sean. Thank you very much for having

me. I've been, I've been following

your journey with this for some time.

So it's very nice to be here. Thank you.

No, it's, it's it's good to have you on because in our obviously

in pest control, it's obviously I, I run the company.

I've never had the had to employ, you know, we get

someone, yeah, maybe in the future, but I just thought it

might be a good way of talking to you.

So other people, other business owners or people that are

looking to get a job. Sorry, it's a career, a career

in pest control. You could help with ways to help

them get into the industry or ways to make you know help

companies find the best technicians because some of the

adverts are paid out there. Yes, workflows benefit.

I think, I think it's challenging Sean, and it's

challenging on both sides in respect to the fact that for

companies who are looking to grow, finding and attracting and

retaining the the team members to support that growth is is

challenging in general. And particularly challenging in

pest control at the moment due to the fact that there's quite

an acute imbalance in, in terms of supply and demand of

technicians who know what they're doing really.

So what I mean by that is there's significantly more jobs

open in general than there are people in general who who meet

those levels of experience and qualifications etcetera.

So for employers, it's quite a difficult landscape to navigate,

excuse me, in terms of identifying, attracting the

people they need. And for people that are looking

to either further their career in the industry or even get into

the industry, it's challenging for them to to, to find the

right positions that are going to be well suited to them.

Because again, it's it's very case by case for each person.

So for for two different individuals, the the best, the

best route for for their career is likely to be at two different

two different companies. So it's not really A1 size fits

all approach to that. So in terms of the job that I do

day-to-day on both sides, really it's it's helping the companies

to find and attract the people that they need to support their

success and growth as businesses.

And for the for the people themselves to and ultimately to

be looking at it on the basis of what they want as a person and

what their motivations and goals are.

And then establishing where where it would fit in with that.

So yeah, a trick, a tricky, A tricky landscape to navigate.

And then you throw in the fact that for job seekers, a lot of

information that they'll see about jobs and adverts etcetera

might not be all that informative because it might be,

you know, just some of the commonplace job description

stuff. And everyone knows what a

technician would would be doing within that role, but it's not

necessarily furnishing that person with masses of

information to decide on on where it's best for them to to

work at. So yeah, good fun and quite,

quite interesting. Very day-to-day.

I thought. I thought it is.

It's like I know nothing about. That's why I got you on.

Good evening, Jasmine. Thanks for popping in.

But yeah, I'll tell you what we should start with because we

mentioned how complex it is. So what do you, what's the

recruitment industry like in general?

Because I read a lot on LinkedIn, I'm not on about the

pest control industry, about a lot of jobs abroad.

The reckon is there's recruitment agencies that

actually put jobs out there that don't actually exist just to get

you on the books and stuff. It's a bit roguy, that is, you

know. There's.

No job actually there, but someone's a ploy and thinking

there's a job it's. So I mean there's a few few

points to unpack there. There there is, there is a

concern around scams and and fraudsters online and I think

that relates to it often seems to relate to to fraudsters who

are offering a job often to international applicants that

doesn't actually exist for the purposes of, you know,

fraudulent activity. So that is something to watch

out for. To be honest, it's generally

fairly easy to spot if people are asking for information that

they're just, you know, there'd be no need for them to have

around personal details, etcetera.

I've read 1 recently. I look at a lot of stuff on

LinkedIn and apparently it was a red flag.

This person told this lady she makes resumes.

Yeah. He messaged her and said someone

can't write it and she said well what's up?

She's it was basically your resume is not in the right

format. Pay £400 for this company to get

it in the correct format for our system.

Yeah. It's a scam basically.

Yeah, I've heard of all. I've heard of all that sort of

thing. So I mean, just to keep things

very simple in terms of the kind of ethics that I encourage and

how we operate. So there's no charge to any job

seeker ever at all, full stop. And the ultimately the, the fees

are paid by the hiring companies.

So it's often businesses where perhaps they don't really have

the, the year round need to employ somebody within their,

within their HR function or, or operations function to do the,

the recruitment side of things. So will will work for them as

required case by case and recruitment as an industry, I

think. So I never intended to get into

recruitment. I, I went for a job interview

when I was, I think 21 and the person who was in TMA, I wasn't

really that interested in the job that they were offering, but

what they were doing was really interesting and, and, and got

into it from there without really much found the planning.

It wasn't a career that I've looked at through school,

etcetera, and decided to go for and, and 13 years later, still

still at it now. So I've learned a lot along the

way. I think it's, it's not an

industry that has the best reputation.

I think it's kind of up there with second hand car salesman in

terms of the public's perception of recruitment in general as an

industry. I think there are probably like

any industry, different, different types of operators

within that and some of whom are quite salesy and pushy and some

of whom are quite more of a consultant rather than a

salesperson, I guess. OK, OK.

Yeah. It's just it's not something

I've ever had to deal with. I just read a lot of stuff on

and I know it's obviously a big concern in the that's the

management industry for lack of people or for people retired in

retiring. That's right.

That's right. So I think in in the UK and past

at the moment, I think we've got something in around 8000

technicians in the UK 7 to 8000 I think something are in and

around half of those people are are self-employed owner

operators, which which by my reckoning leaves a pole of,

excuse me, perhaps 3 or 4000 texts in the UK.

Yeah, but that's across pest control, bird proofing,

falconry, different specialist roles within that.

But that that's probably the sort of pool we've got in the UK

and it's an ageing workforce. So there are definitely more

people retiring than people joining the industry.

A lot of people say that's a disaster and a crisis and I

don't really share that view. I think it's a good thing.

I think the bigger the bigger the constriction on the supply,

the more that all the pest control companies can charge

customers and the more that all the people in the industry can

get paid. So I think it's a good thing if

there's a skilled shortage in a labour process.

Supply and demand, isn't it? Yeah, it's everybody in the

industry in a more favourable position as regards supply and

demand in my opinion versus if we do succeed in bringing in

2000 trainees straight away, all we'll all we'll achieve is to

put depression in depressionary pressure on the the pay and and

what you guys can charge etcetera.

In in my view of course you've got a balance down.

We do need fresh blood in the industry, but I don't think it's

a crisis or a big problem to the industry that we're struggling

for workers. I think it's an opportunity to

elevate pest control and on par with all the other skilled

trades that that customers deal with.

I definitely, I definitely agree.

It's obviously it's a challenge for the industry, but I'm sure.

I don't think it's panic mode though.

I think I think we'll be fine, but just look at ways to try and

attract more people to the industry.

But Jasmine's got a few questions for you.

She has it off LinkedIn, she says.

Did you find recruitment as a whole has changed massively

since the COVID times? It has for me, I think

specifically as regards working remotely being very normal now,

whereas I think previously prior to COVID and you know, most of

my working life had been in offices, I had asked etcetera

and I think COVID changed that in terms of how people work in

certain roles and where etcetera.

I I think it moved the world on about.

They reckon they moved the world on about 60 years, they reckon.

They reckon remote working was in the future.

It pushed the world on a little bit.

Correct. Yeah, I think so.

And then, yeah, there was an absolute sea change over COVID

because the government printed a lot of money and threw it into

the economy and then there was a huge boom.

And you know, around that sort of time, I think there was so

many jobs about, there was so many employers hiring etcetera.

And and then you know things are things have probably settled a

bit from there in terms of businesses finally a little bit

harder with some of the tax regulations etcetera coming in

and and increasing their costs on that etcetera and customers

tighten their belt. So it probably has been after

straight after COVID, a boom and then a steadier period where

businesses are a lot of them taking stock, I think, rather

than growing at quite such rapid pace.

And, and, and, and in the UK, you know, massive amounts of,

of, of mergers and acquisitions. And, you know, I'll say the

other day to somebody, I'll look through the list of what were

the sort of medium sized pest control servicing businesses

that we're dealing with week in week out a few years ago.

And almost all of them have been bought now.

They've almost all been bought by, you know, whether it be

various groups and investors from around the world.

So that, that's been a huge change, I'll say over the last

sort of five years in, in, in the industry has been that

change in companies being acquired and merging and, and

all that stuff and new companies springing up as well.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not the biggest fan

of all this buying, buying up companies.

I'm not the biggest fan of it, but it's the it's the business.

It is. It's what it is.

Some of the. Big yeah, exactly.

I don't think necessarily that many people really understand

it. So it depends who's doing the

acquiring. If it's the the private equity

houses they're working on, I would imagine a deal cycle of

something like three to seven years to to buy these

businesses, make them more valuable and flip them again.

And but then you've got others who are actually, and they're

true and. Making these groups and letting

them all run as they were, you know, all these different names

and stuff. Yeah, rather than stacking them

all into one company the same. Thing yeah, possibly lessons

have been learned in the industry from I think it was

rented Gilbert terminates in North America and it was a

disaster because and specifically because it didn't

plan the integration correctly and they didn't execute the

integration correctly. So it may be that the people who

are acted by UK pest control companies are working on that in

the background and and want to get that right before they bring

things under 1 banner. But I don't know, I might, I

might be completely off the mark on that.

Well, they managed to do it in America, but here they had to.

The CMA said no, they said it was a monopoly, didn't they

here? Yeah, that was a specific issue

when rent to kill was by Mighty which became Virgo.

And actually I think a nonsense to be honest, because even if

you put that rent to Kill and Virgo together, this this slam

and go monopoly anyways for the, you know, not to the extent of

the competition, the market. So authorities need to worry

about in my opinion, but I don't make the rules.

No, exactly there, but you know, Mighty still exist.

I've got a mate who messaged me saying not a pest controller.

He says I'm working for a company called Mighty doing

Cleaning I. Think yeah, yeah, they do that

Mighty. I messaged him back saying, you

know, they're a pest control company there.

I said there, I didn't know there were facilities companies.

Yeah. Mighty have been and our multi

disciplinary business, they'll have like one of the one of the

businesses was the pest control business, but they've got

numerous other service lines. What's what's the I've ever seen

on the road? I've never seen a might anyone

from mighty or the name about anywhere?

I'm still relatively new, see. Yeah, I mean, they're more

mighty. You'll see them more in, in a

general sense on, excuse me, the large government sector and

commercial sector and facilities management contracts and stuff

like that. A lot of their work is with it.

OK. But yeah, no, that's, that's,

yeah. It's that, that, that, that's

been a significant change for sure.

The the, the rate of pace of companies in pest control being

acquired and, and I think that cycle will continue now because

what I'm seeing is you know some very, very Kel capable people

starting new businesses and those businesses will then be

grown and then sold again on the next cycle.

So that's just how it how it gets.

Yeah, of course cool. But I think a good opportunity

and a good time in the industry for people to have that

entrepreneurial spirit and, you know, developing growing new

companies and existing companies.

And where there's change, there's always going to be

opportunity within that people to to do well.

Well, it definitely is, but at the minute everything's up in

the air, isn't it? A lot of companies are scared to

take people on as well because of.

Yeah, I mean the. Way the way the economy is and

the way the government keep bringing new taxes up and open

everything, a lot of them, but you know, supermarket usually

take on a few, a lot of people at Christmas Day attempts.

But. Not a lot of them ain't taking

any on. So let's do with so much do with

the, you know, the rights that temp workers have and.

That's a full time. Workers, they've got the same

rights, so a lot of shops have been stuck in what to do.

Yeah, well, they're, they're making, there was something

called the Agency Workers Regulation, which was that

basically ensure that temporary workers were afforded the same

rights and protections as PAYE permanent employees.

And what we've got now under the current Labour government is

because this is the thing, so to present people, everybody who

starts a new job is in practise and reality on a 2A2 year

probation period. Because under the employment

unemployment law as it stands, and employers only need to give

an employee one week's notice within their first two years.

And and that's been changed now to give people a lot more,

excuse me, a lot more rights as an employee from day one.

So whereas before employers could, could hire people and,

and kind of, you know, check them out through a probation

period, now they're, they're incurring quite a lot of

responsibilities towards that employee from day one.

So that that'll be a change. That's probably it.

That is but. Yeah, it's still, it's, it's

still, you know, the majority of pest control companies above a

certain size that they're still ploughing ahead with wanting to

hire more people. And it makes sense.

It makes sense because the kind of margins that they're making

on technicians is, is significant.

So if you look at like the construction industry in the UK

as a whole, typical margins, typical margins for companies,

low single figure percentages, a pest, a pest control servicing

business run correctly, 35 percent, 40% potentially.

And so it's an industry where it makes sense, you know, makes

sense to people to keep hiring more technicians as long as they

can provide them with sufficient work and get them going because,

you know, it's profitable to to those companies to do that.

Oh no, you're definitely right. It is if you've got the right,

you know, if you've got a lot bigger.

But then some of the big boys don't make as much as you think

as well. It's weird, isn't it?

Yeah. Do you mean the companies in

terms of their financial results?

What do you mean? Yeah, they yeah.

Yeah. But it's it's, it probably looks

not a lot to us, but the dynamics at least billions it

is. Yeah.

And that and that can vary as well.

It depends what your motives are in terms of are.

Are the motives to make a business saleable and get the

best price to sell it, which could be very different to other

motives to. You know, to make it profitable

or make it, you know, a good place to work or make it

anything, really. It depends what the motivations

are. That's a trend, yeah.

So Jasmine's got another good question that I that I think

it's a hard right. So here you go.

Is there a set percentage of annual salary that pest control

companies should expect to pay for recruitment, or does it vary

too much to say on that? Yeah.

So that's a good question. So, I mean, within the

recruitment industry as a whole in the UK, the figures would

generally be within the range of 10% to 20%.

And the, there can be some variation outside of that, but

that's broadly speaking the, the range in the recruitment market

as a whole. So it, it would fall within

that. But the exact, the exact figure

and arrangement will be based on a few different factors, such as

the, the nature of how they want to work, if they want to retain

a recruitment partner to work as an extension of their team, or

if they want, you know, something with less commitment

where perhaps they may or may not want to hire somebody at

some point. And so there's different,

different considerations within that.

But it yeah, it would broadly be within the range of 10% to 20%

in recruitment in general and in pest control in the UK, probably

more like 10% to 15% typically. OK.

OK. So what do you think?

You know like the average RSPH level to awarding pest

management? What's the average salary then

for a tech? Or does that vary on the

company? Yeah.

So that will vary based on a few factors.

One of those factors would be the geographical location.

So within the UK itself, there's quite a lot of regional

differences and variations. So for example, a salary that's

a good salary and good offer in Liverpool.

And you know, no disrespect to Liverpool, I haven't picked that

particular city out, especially other than it's in the north.

A good salary in Liverpool that's highly attractive and

you'll probably get decent people interested in London.

There will be, you know, not a very good salary and not really

of interest to people. So I mean, broadly speaking for

for qualified Level 2 tags, there has been, there has been

quite considerable salary inflation in recent years.

So at present, I would say outside of London, you're

probably looking at something within the range of 30,000 to

32,000 as a baseline to start attracting kind of good Level 2

tax. And some of them will be, some

of them will be on higher than that and you get some that are

on lower as well. But that broadly speaking,

outside of London, that would be the sort of range.

And then in London itself, you're not really getting any

decent level 2 tax for less than 3435 K as a minimum so.

Expensive to live there as well, isn't it?

And travel around there? Is that part of?

Is that why or? Yeah, I think salary is an

interesting one. I think they're ultimately, in

my opinion, LED solely and wholly by supply and demand.

So it's a direct reflection of what that person can get for

their labour in the market. And I think where a lot of

companies have perhaps struggled over the years is they've been

looking at, you know, some sort of formal schedule of rate or

historical salary bandings, etcetera, and looking at that as

the basis of, of what they want to pay or think they should pay,

etcetera. And it's just explaining people

explaining to people that in the nicest sense that that's utterly

irrelevant. And the only thing that is

relevant is the supply and demand today.

So companies will they'll they'll know whether they're

paying not very well, reasonably or quite well.

And the reason they'll know is if they're excuse me, if

they're, you know, if their job offers have been been accepted,

being accepted pretty much all of the time without fennel, then

they're paying probably a bit a bit high.

If they're mainly being accepted, then they're paying

probably about right. And if they're having, you know,

a lot of job offers not, not accepted, then that'd be the

indicator that they're probably not really offering something

which is piquing people's interest.

And I guess it relates back again to the, excuse me, the

more more jobs than than people situation overall in respect to

the fact that, you know, there's there's not many good, there's

very few, actually very few good level 2 techs who are sat at

home waiting for a job and can just start the job straight

away. So, you know, in most cases, if

you're going to hire a good level 2 tech, you're going to

hire them by attracting them from other employment.

And you know, there, there's a difference there between what

will attract somebody who just wants a job right now versus if

you're trying to attract people, you know, who have already got

positions, etcetera. Then, then, then, then, you

know, people can afford to be more selective about what pay

they're wishing to work for and, and move for etcetera.

So, but I think yeah, outside of London to the north, starting

from 30 up to 32 in London 3435 and then around the rest of the

South perhaps 323334 be pretty normal.

OK, do you reckon I say obviously job adverts on on the

Facebook groups, do you think the jobs that don't actually put

the wage get a lot of interest? Because I've noticed a lot of

them, they don't put, they don't put how much you're going to get

paid. Yeah, look, it's hard to get it

right all the time, constantly. I had a thing today where I, I

think I actually need some more information about a position

before I put put a salary on in haste.

But but I mean, that is a rarity, to be honest.

And I think, yeah, people, I mean, this has always been a bit

of a, a quandary for me to get my head around.

And I remember, I remember a client I was working for hiring,

hiring company saying to me about a candidate that they were

money, money hungry or money motivated.

And I said, well, yeah. Well, what do you think is the

sole reason that we all go to work?

It's money, yeah. Exactly.

I mean it's. Afraid your family is.

Yeah. So and, and, and in terms of

experience, what I encounter, it's exceptionally rare to come

across somebody who genuinely is not actually money motivated at

all in, you know, in respect to what we do.

People are rightly so they've got a there's a cost of living

crisis out there at the moment. And I think, yeah, I can

empathise with people who take the view that the job itself is

relatively similar from company to company to company.

So you may as well work for whoever will pay you the most.

I can, I can totally empathise with that.

Yeah, no, I can't. I can't.

I mean, obviously, obviously if you were to live, you know, I

live very rural, but a lot of people live in cities and I bet

there's a lot of companies paying, you know, I'm not.

Some might pay the same, some might pay more.

There might be competition for staff technicians you know to.

Be honest, people get really worked up about this and and

and, and I'm not one of them. And I think the reason for that

is people are free to do what they wish to do and there are a

lot of people who are not paid particularly well, but actually

they've made absolutely the right decision to get into

something perhaps and, you know, reap the benefits of a career

down the line. It's not all about short

termism. And I think actually, if people,

especially earlier in their career tracks earlier in their

career trajectory, the the pay in the immediate term is

probably probably not going to be the number one thing that it

would benefit them to consider. Because there are there are dead

end jobs where you can't really do anything beyond it that will

pay more than a trainee job in a field where you can actually

further yourself and enjoy your working life.

So in those situations, it's worth it for people to not take

whichever job pays the most immediately.

But on the other hand, you know, I think especially in this day

and age now, people are pretty, the information is, is

relatively easily accessible for people as regards, you know,

roughly what what sort of pay is on offer for people who do my

sort of job in my sort of area. It's not, it's not half people

to come by and learn that. So, yeah, I think, I think that

again, has led to companies probably improving what they're

offering people because, you know, they're mindful as well.

I think that people need to earn that money under the current

circumstances and that, you know, people won't stay at a

place if they're being paid significantly less than than

similar positions elsewhere. Oh, that and you've probably got

them out. I've heard it a few places.

Or you've got to make them feel valued where they look, they

like they like working for the firm.

Absolutely. Or company benefits or something

I don't know is gym. Membership.

Is gym membership thing in pest control giving people your staff

gym membership? I haven't come.

I haven't come across that in pretty many cases.

I have in some cases, but I think there's a, there's a

broader point there around and some, some companies are really,

really effective at this in terms of the what I would look

at as team and staff retention, which isn't always solely about

pay. Yes, of course, it's, it's

really beneficial for the purposes of retaining good

people to pay well. But people there's, you know,

the, the, the emotional, the emotional drivers that lead

people to stay in jobs or move jobs, etcetera.

And not linear and not black and white.

It's all about feelings and how valued someone feels.

And so the, the really savvy business owners will be, you

know, highly effective at making their team feel loved and valued

and on board etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, in ways that in ways

that are not necessarily a direct expense to the employer.

You know, and it's more about the, the, the personal side of

it and, you know, encouraging people and retaining people

through having that good rapport as well.

Yeah, no, I mean, I've obviously I work for, you know, commercial

clients where I see some of them do stuff like they take them out

on like you know what they call these these fun days out things.

Like that? Having barbecues and dinner time

and, you know, things like that to get them engaged, things like

that. So great idea.

The yeah, I think one of the best examples I came across of

that was a company who every year have a BBQ and the like,

the managers and the owners, they serve the tax, the food and

you know, they're they're doing the serving.

And then a lot of those companies are also the really

successful ones where they're all about the fact that it's the

technicians who are doing the day-to-day work and representing

the company, etcetera. And that they're the best asset

the company has and to look after those guys and keep them

happy and all that is, you know, crucial and really important

things focus upon. Well, it is a lot of times if a

lot of people walk out the door, you've got these contracts just

kind of you can leave. What I'm saying is if a load of

people leave, it can put the business in danger, can't it?

To a certain degree sometimes if you've got contracts for Bill,

but keep them happy, I suppose it's.

Not easy. No, it's not easy.

It's not easy, no. And it's very easy for me to sit

here and say, you know, do this, do that.

Of course it's not that easy. It's not.

But what? But my point is people, what

motivates people to stay in and or leave jobs?

It's not it's not solely black and white about money.

It isn't. I mean that that is, that is

often a factor, a big factor. But and when people are phoning

me saying I need a different job etcetera, it's quite rarely,

it's quite rarely because they are grossly underpaid and it's

more commonly because of other factors and things that

businesses can address to improve their retention without

necessarily incurring additional costs directly.

That's. All the thing I've found with

the everyone you know lots to back on these big companies,

right? But one thing I've noticed about

them is they offer amazing free training like level 2 up to

level basically any course you want to do they'll they'll

they'll they'll do it for you. They will training training is a

big thing with these big, big firms.

It is it's not cheap. Is it these these?

These places, no, there's, it's interesting, there's a few

points that I've picked up on there, Sean, and one of them,

one of them would be something that I've learned over the years

in terms of the day-to-day. Because what, what I base my

day-to-day and, and learning about the market on is feedback

from technicians and, and there's no correlation at all

between size of company and what it's like to work there in terms

of whether the feedback is good, bad or indifferent.

And what I mean by that is there are companies at the very

biggest end of the spectrum route.

I get great feedback about and companies at that bigger, bigger

spectrum, bigger end of the spectrum that the feedback is

consistently not so good about. And then that also applied to

the smallest companies. So, but in terms of training, so

I mean, typically what I what I tend to see a lot of is those

big companies being excellent for people entering the industry

and, and gaining qualifications through that, gaining experience

through that. And then their their career

paths could, could be internally or could indeed be externally

another business. So, yeah, I mean, I mean it's

interesting again, it is, is it actually that considerable an

expense to the employer when you think about the margins on on

attack and the benefits of the business of having a well

qualified tech? Probably not to be honest.

No, I. Believe you if you can get like

if you can get someone and upskill them to something and

they can do that work and you get extra revenue, a lot more

revenue than it it's it's worth anything that makes the business

potentially more money. Yeah, this is a willing to do.

Yeah, 100%. It's interesting.

I had this recently again and, and it's, it's specifically

Ranskill that applies to actually in terms of how rapidly

they do that training and it all it confused every time it

happens. It confused me a bit because I

think, well, there's a kid here that's got 18 months experience

and he's telling me he's a Level 3 field biologist.

Well, it's not possible, but actually on paper they are

because they they've joined Rent to Kill and they've done, you

know, the normal route of safeties for identicides, level

2 best management. And then they've done the the

certified advanced technician or BPCA field biologist stuff in a

really short time frame, which I mean, yeah, I think there's

aspects of that that you can hold the certificate, but

there's no substitute for field experience over a lengthy

period. Like that's true.

I reckon most people of a certain like academic intellect

could pass these tests, but whether they're actually hands

on expert or not I think is a different matter to be honest.

Yeah, I didn't know it was that rapid.

I think that was that rapid. Yeah, it can be.

I know it can be there. I've not really come across that

in too many other companies instances, but I know with rents

that would do that in in some cases, which is great.

I think a lot of the people in the industry have succeeded in

various different fields, whether that be running their

own businesses or whatever areas have have come from a starting

point of joining one of those big businesses, benefiting from

getting that training and certification experience and

going from there. So.

OK. Yeah.

But you have some interesting points, George.

Cheers for that. Because you, you know far more.

That's why I've got you on there, so people can.

I don't know about that. I'll try and learn.

Yeah. I mean, I just, I just listen.

I just listen to people, to be honest, I think.

And that's, that's the good thing about what I do day-to-day

is the opportunity to learn a lot about different parts of the

industry from different people. Well, you have a different

perspective. Different perspective.

Best perspectives. Yeah, exactly.

And I build that. I build that.

It's interesting. So I build up quite a good

picture over a long period of when I'm constantly speaking to

technicians and all you worked there, what's it like to work

there? You work there.

What's it like to work there? It's it's quite informative

because that the other part of the job, this end is every, if I

pay to the employers, what's it like to work at your company?

They're they're all going to say without fail, it's fantastic.

And it's this and I'd say the same about my company, right?

So there's nothing wrong with that.

But again, it's when I say it's case by case for each person and

which job and which company would suit them.

And you know, it's good to know that and understand that because

some people like like certain parts and aspects of the work

and other people like different things.

So. Yeah, no, that's a good point.

Ask pest control. Jason, thanks for popping in.

I know the answer this form maybe, but Jasmine's got another

question to ask. I think it's more in America,

isn't there much temporary usage within pest control?

I know in America they they do seasons where it's busy season

than they like and they take take them off.

But it's not a thing here because I obviously don't know

about that kind of thing. Is is temporary work as in pest

control a thing? Yeah, we, we did this Once Upon

a time, specifically in relation to seasonal WASP work, where

companies throughout that height of the WASP season had a

requirement for more workers than they would do throughout

the rest of the year. So yes, in relation to that more

broadly, technicians being employed on a temporary basis as

opposed to a permanent basis is something that I'd quite often

see amongst councils and local authorities.

Often because they'll get their funding for a set period and it

might not be for permanent headcount, but they do need a

worker. So they'll have someone in like

a temporary contract basis. But no, like broadly speaking,

no, the overwhelming majority of of positions that we deal with

will be permanent and year round and full time.

OK. Yeah, it's still a good

question. Question Jasmine to ask is, so

if someone wanted to say they were looking for a job, what

would be their best way of, you know, writing ACV or if you're

in America, a resume. Even though we say resume, what

would you put on that? What would you put on that CV to

try and give yourself the best chance of?

It's a particular. Style.

Yeah, I. Know, I know, you can go on

canvas and get all these fancy ones.

Now, is there any kind of way to make yourself look better than

other candidates? Other candidates.

Yeah, so I think there's a lot of varied information about all

this stuff online, so I'll try and keep it as simple as I can.

So in terms of the actual formatting and the layout, I'd

strongly recommend very Simple. And what I mean by that is not

using a lot of pictures and tables and graphs and columns.

I'll keep it quite quite basic and and simple in terms of

format in terms of what to put on there.

So if you're somebody who wants to get into the industry and

will be looking to join as a trainee and hasn't worked within

the industry before, the number one thing I'll say to put on

there is to actually put that on there that you specifically want

to get into this industry and actually put that on there.

That I'm looking for an opportunity within the pest

control industry. I'm interested in the industry

because of XYZ and etcetera. And the reason I recommend that

is when you're going for trainee jobs, you want, you want the

reader to read that CV and think, here is somebody who

actually wants to be a trainee pest control technician as

opposed to, as opposed to here is somebody who's just clicking

every single trainee job they can find.

You see what I mean? So that, so that's the key thing

there is to tailor it. And there's a CVACV doesn't need

to be solely a list of experience and qualifications.

It's ultimately your, your own personal sales document, if you

like, around why it would be good for employees to give you a

job. So if you go in for a trainee

pest control job, put it on there and be really specific

about you actually want this industry and the reason that

you're interested in it is XYZ and make it tailored and

specific for people that are, you know, already experienced

professionals in the industry who are moving jobs or

considering moving jobs. And I think the best advice that

I could give on that would be to look at your CV as not just a

list of your duties and responsibilities, but actually

your achievements and what you've done.

So that could be anything. It could be I dealt with a very

complex domestic wrap job which required me to use drainage

investigatory tools and cameras. Or it could be I, I, you know, I

dealt with some bird proofing work and had to install various,

these various systems. Or it might be, you know, I did

heat treatments for bed bugs or whatever.

I think it's, this is, and I'd imagine this applies around the

world that people are fairly aware of what a pest control

technician job involves in terms of list of responsibilities.

So, you know, like say you're a pest control technician at one

of the major pest control companies.

You don't need to put the the duties on there that everyone

knows, you know, that's what you'll clearly have been doing.

You can use that space, you know, achievements and what

you're proud of. And but I think it's also about

getting, getting key information onto ACV.

So I'll often speak to people, they'll have qualifications or

certain skills that they've not included on there.

So that would be, you know, it's quite commonplace for people to

put their pest control, their main qualification on.

So they may put level 2 pest management.

But then I'll speak to them and realise actually you've got IPAF

as well and you've got plasma and you've got marksman and you

might, you know, maybe you've got a firearms licence and you

can shoot foxes and deer and whatever it might be, get all

that on there, get all that on there.

And then in the actual bulk of your CV, you know, I'll include

if you're someone who's got specialist skills, whether that

be moles, whether that be bird proofing, falconry, rodent

proofing, if you're someone who can pull kitchen units out and

proof behind it and put it back, whatever it might be, put that

on that. Because I think a lot of people,

you know, they don't, they do themselves a disservice perhaps

by not including some of their own attributes on their CV.

Really good advice because it that would make you stand out,

it really would rather than just.

Say. I've got this level 2 and I've

worked in and that's it. You are right, that's a much

better read that would be. Yeah, exactly.

And that'll then open, open up the next level of, of jobs, I

would say, because in the job market, there's kind of 2 levels

of jobs. There's your jobs where you just

need level 2 to be willing to kick boxes and there's your job

crack on. And then there's your other jobs

where it is actually about root cause analysis and problem

solving. And can you can you be a

stakeholder manager with, you know, clients or whoever it

might be, this sort of stuff? And yeah, you know, there's I

think for people that are looking to develop, it's good

for them to include on their CV, you know, the, the different

skills that they're they're proud of and that they enjoy.

And people should also perceive what they enjoy.

I think, you know, if you're somebody who and really enjoys 1

aspect of the of the sector, go for it and and seek to

specialise in that, you know and.

You are right because there is companies that literally deal

in, they've got a lot of big bird divisions or big bird

proofing. Some people absolutely love just

bird proofing all day. So you're right, the plants

specialised. You can, but it's there's hate

treatment. Specialists just do hate

treatment. There's there's.

Loads. Yeah, the bird work is, I think,

and you know, really, really good area.

It's definitely a profitable area in terms of margins

compared to other aspects of pest control.

And yeah, I mean, and it's interesting because some of the

biggest, some of the biggest pest control companies can't

service their own bird work but don't have the bird proofers.

So they sub it out, which I was like wow, when I realised that I

thought why do they do that? Yeah, I got I.

Got. I got.

I got told a story when Mark Mosley came on, you know, but

he's been on The Apprentice. I'm not, I'm not saying the

company name. I'm not saying the company name.

They paid somebody X amount of thousands and then the bigger

company charged 100 grand and the guy, the guy found out what

I charged 10 grand. Yeah, I.

Mean, you know, I don't know. I don't know about those

figures. But yeah.

Well, The thing is, if you're what you've got to bear in mind

is if you're Mr Klein and you, you know, you how many times

have you ever had to price a big bird job?

Like never. So you don't, you don't know if

it's 30 grand or 80 grand. It could be, you know.

Oh, sadly, you are, you are. But there's all these specialist

areas of, of pest management. You don't have to just do

general pests, do you? Definitely not.

Definitely not. And I think, yeah, like I said,

different people enjoy different parts of that they do.

And that's where it's case by case.

Like some people really like the proofing work, some people

don't. Some people, you know, all they

want to do is fly Harris hawk and that's what they want to do.

And then it's, you know, the jobs there where it's solely

doing that or are they also going to do some pest control

and are they happy with that? And these are all the

considerations that come up. Exactly.

Is there any massive mistakes people make on these CVS that

you've seen? Is there anything you shouldn't

put on there? Like she's like basically, you

know, because I don't know this, but you don't with a pest

control job. If you're a qualifier, you don't

need to go back to your school days to put all of that on

there, do you? You don't need to go all.

The way back, no, you don't, do you?

I wouldn't say that you do, no. Filled out their last CVI filled

out was my first job at 19 dead end job and next one was to be

on the board of directors, the MPTA.

So I think I've done all right because I.

Got on the. Board, but but that I had to ask

a few people what to do. I had to.

Pay for that I think, yeah, I think to be honest at the moment

in the UK if you are already a technician and you're qualified

and you're experienced, you don't need to write ACV

particularly thoroughly to get job interviews.

If you just put on that you are a qualified technician and put

your experience, you know you're going to get the job interviews

anyway I'd say. But where the CV kind of details

information is more important, I think it's for trainees if

they're trying to stand out, if that.

Well, it's not actually been the case this this last week too.

But generally speaking, if you advertise for trainees, you'll

get a lot more applicants. And if you advertise for

qualified experienced people, just because the pools are

bigger. And so the reason I say that is

if you're going for trainee jobs, you might end up with

your, your application being one of quite a few different

applications. And that's why I say if you make

it clear on there, you know why you're applying to that

particular job and to just just spell out on there that you you

want to get into that specific sector and that'll be quite

advantageous for people to get loads of opportunities.

OK, that's good. Thanks Adam for for popping in.

He says you obviously. Yeah, it says nationals will

take on anyone on there literally don't care as long as

they can give you a few boxes about the majority of the time.

He's previously worked for a national before.

He's he's, he's a good guy, is. Again, this is, yeah, this, this

is, you know, it's not, to be honest, it's not applicable to

group all the nationals together because within that you've got

some that are, in my opinion, and very high service standards

and some that are perhaps not as high.

So that that will vary. But yeah, I mean, I think there

is that side to the industry for sure, which is the the jobs

which are, you know, commercial contracts that have been won

based on competing quite heavily on price.

So therefore the only way that you make that pay is to get A

tag to smash out quite a lot of volume per day.

We're just fine. That is what it is.

But obviously that then is a different job role and boat list

to somebody who is interested in fixing the problems and doing

the root cause analysis as opposed to thinking I need to be

back in the van in X minutes to get on to the next job.

So there is there is a difference there.

And it's not to say that they can't marry up together because

they obviously do. But yeah, I think on the other

hand, this is the other thing. There's a lot of the lot of the

guys who I was going to say moan, which would be unfair, but

who working those working those box kicking jobs, do they

actually want to go and do the the domestics?

They actually want to go and do that And and you know, probably

not to be honest, in a lot of cases, no.

No, you've got a good point. But also equally with that

question, I think we briefly touched on it earlier.

If if, if a pest control company wants to find a good good

technicians, good staff, what could they do to position

themselves the best apart from just paid the highest money, you

know? Because.

Wording their jobs better like the job descriptions wording how

they actually because a lot of them look the same.

I mean I read them. I'm not obviously not looking

for a job, but I just read them I.

Do so, I mean, personally, I would look at that from the

reverse standpoint, which is who are the people that they're

targeting? What's their target audience,

which is good technicians basically.

And and a lot of those good technicians are going to be in

jobs and not going to be active job seekers.

So they probably want to be thinking about firstly, how, you

know, how is this opportunity of employment going to be brought

to the attention, the people that we need it in front of?

Are we going to restrict that exclusively to the people who

are applying for jobs online and searching for jobs online?

You know, does that, does that run a risk of attracting more of

the people who are kind of regular applicants and job

seekers rather than being a bit more broad with the view of who

you're looking to recruit and attract?

But I'll be thinking about what are those people's motivations,

the people that we want to that we want to attract, we want to

get on board. Obviously, yes, they want to

earn good money and, and the pay.

And I know you mentioned earlier about being transparent around

that, but it's also, you know, thank you, sorry.

Jasmine. Sorry, Jasmine did say this.

I didn't. I do believe in salary

transparent. It's.

Transparent. As otherwise it could be wasting

someone's time, she put. Yeah, that's right.

I mean there's there's nuances even within that that I've

observed over the years, such As for example, company A might say

the job pays maximum 32,000 for example.

And then person comes along, entities for the job, the

company really wants them. They want the job too.

But actually they can only take it if they want to pay 33 1/2.

And you know, it's often commercially viable and sensible

for the company to pay that, even though they'd said it was

32. So it's not, it's not always

exact for those sorts of reasons, I think.

But yeah, they, they should be, there should be, you know, open

around that and and the bandings because there will be different

levels for people based on how, how much experience they have

etcetera as well. But yeah, so I mean, when

they're when they're thinking about their employer brand and

attracting people, there's loads of stuff within that.

There's you know, if they're especially if they're quite a

sizeable business, they're going to have quite a sizeable team of

staff already in the in the business.

Those those guys will have, you know, their own networks and

friends etcetera. Perhaps.

So there's somebody they can recommend as trainee to join.

He wants to get into it that sort of thing.

But you know, when it comes to when it comes to I think

experienced hires, employers, you know, they've got a few

different options and routes that can go down.

Some of them, some of them seek to do do what what I do

themselves, because it's not, you know, it's not rocket

science. Ultimately, all I'm doing is

phoning technicians. And if you're prepared to sort

of sit there and, and, and spend the time phoning people and, and

building lists, etcetera, then you know, it can be done by

companies themselves. A lot of them don't really want

to do that because it's time consuming.

Yeah, very time consuming. It's like anything, I suppose.

Like, you know, if if there was a leak, I potentially could get

some tools and sort that out. But I wouldn't, I'd call a

plumber, you know, because that's what they do.

I think. So it's similar.

So they can, they can get, they can get support from specialist

recruiters. But if they're doing that, I

think it's important that they're working with recruiters

who are able to delve deeper into the pool of people overall.

Because in in this day and age, you know, companies are normally

well capable of putting a job advert out and fielding the

applicants, etcetera. So if they're using recruitment

companies, they need to be using recruiters who are able to go

above and beyond that and actually attract people who are,

who are not not applicants and not job seekers.

You potentially. Yeah, I'm, I'm not the only, I'm

not the only recruiter about we're we're in quite a fortunate

position at the moment. I think where touch words

there's, there's there's not really a shortage of work.

So which is great. It allows me to be really open

and honest with, with clients and, and not necessarily just

put, you know, the client on the pedestal and, and, and do as

you're asked. And, and that, that boils down

to things like, you know, can you fill this job for us,

George? It's this, that and the other.

And if the answer is, well, actually with respect to attract

the people that we want, you need to be paying a bit more.

I can tell them that, you know, if they don't, if they don't

like that, then then that's fine.

There's plenty of other jobs to to recruit for but.

You You're in asbestos too, aren't you?

Yeah, so we do, Liam myself do asbestos consultancy, which is

people that do surveys for asbestos.

Do you get them jobs? Then?

Yeah, yeah. Like do a pest control just.

Asbestos as. Well.

Exactly the same. So it's recruit, it's

recruitment consultancy for the asbestos consultancy industry,

the pest control industry, and then within that the bird

proofing and the falconry. Because obviously the jobs are

very distinct and separate and different based upon whether a

company needs a pest control technician, which could be in a

van or could be on foot and a bird proof or a rodent proofer,

a poll Canary, etcetera. So there's lots of different and

special specialisms within that. Yeah.

I mean, ultimately, ultimately where I can typically help

people is and companies when they're hiring is any instances

where a more proactive approach to identifying and attracting

the right workers as required, which is often often perhaps

where companies have tried putting an advert out and not

necessarily had the right results from that or whatever it

might be. Or indeed it's cases where.

Pest control company owner is ending up spending that long

trying to source and and hire staff that they would have made

more sense for them to get on with running other parts of the

pest control business and get get someone else to do the

donkey work of phoning technicians.

So it's not easy. There's, there's no, there's no,

there's no, there's an absolute solution to it at the moment.

But I think, and I mean, in respect to the fact that, that

there is a dearth of workers in the industry and that the, the

demand for skilled people cannot be met by the current supply.

But on the flip side, if you're you're a technician or whatever

you, you know, whatever job role you're undertaking in the

industry, it's, you know, it's quite likely that, that there'll

be demand for your skills. You know, and it's very often

the case that the recommendation I make to people is actually,

I'd recommend you stay where you are and stay in your current

job, you know, Interesting. Yeah.

Interesting take because obviously that shows how how

authentic and you, you care because a lot of people are just

like, yeah, yeah, no leave. You need this job.

You know, you've got quite, you've got good morals when it

comes to getting the person the right job and just saying stay

in the job you're in. There, yeah, there's, there's a

few considerations with that. I can't, I can't recommend to

people to go to a new job unless I can recommend that in good

faith. And I genuinely think that.

So there's that. But also it's that, you know,

the, the, the problems associated with somebody taking

the wrong job can be quite significant.

So it's important and I think I think in this day and age now

people do change jobs quite Willy nilly and it's not quite

the big decision and consideration that it would have

been in previous generations etcetera, but actually.

Does that happen a lot in pest control?

Do people jump from job to job sometimes?

Do they? Yeah, I would say so.

It's not uncommon, but yeah, it's certainly not uncommon for

someone in pest control to have worked for three different pest

control companies in three years or four in four years or five in

five years. It wouldn't.

That wouldn't be uncommon. OK, it'd be unusual, but it

wouldn't be uncommon. Would that be red flag?

Would would that be red flag on the CV though?

I would. Wouldn't it wait?

Wait, it wouldn't be honest. Yeah.

I mean, no, I'm not going to. I would never.

I would never outright with no consideration or thought, you

know, discriminate against somebody because they've had

several jobs, because for all I know, company one may have

closed down, you know, company 2 may have been acquired and

whatever. And there can be obviously

different reasons for that etcetera.

And it's not necessarily always fair to look at somebody and

say, right, you had a short time, so that must be your

fault. It might not be, but yeah, like

if I'm honest, yeah, it's not good.

As if if people are really jumpy and they're constantly moving

jobs and with respect, it's unlikely that it's the employer

every single time and there's more likely a different common

denominator there. But take people as you find

them, I think, and different people will leave different jobs

for different reasons. And it's not to say that they're

not going to succeed in the future if they've had a lot of

short, short employment stance. Ray just might not have found

the right place. You might not have fit in and

you know. Yeah, as well there's.

Also that there's that, but you don't, you might feel that you

don't fit in or I don't know. But yeah, you are right.

True to everyone that they, they might be, they might, you might

take them on. They might settle at your place,

might be your, you know, you might take them on and a bit of

tech for years to come. That might be the one they like,

you know? Yeah, you do, I do.

I do still see obviously a lot of people who have those long 10

years at companies and it's not, to be honest, it's not

necessarily the best thing for me to have noticed.

But I think more recent generations are moving away from

that long term employment mindset and that job for life

mindset and they're much more willing to move jobs more freely

and easily than would have been the case in the past.

So, yeah, but I suppose what what I'm coming back to on that

is for me this, you know, what we're dealing with here are

really important considerations because for the employers, you

know, it's, it's enormous. The, you know, the, the impact

of how successful they are in hiring is, is, is huge for the

business and for the person and people moving jobs and taking up

new roles, etcetera. You know, it's their career that

you're dealing with and it's their life that you're dealing

with. So it needs to be something

that's carefully considered and that they're taking with a view

to it being something for the long term.

So that's probably where I'll end up, you know, saying to

people, and it's more often in a case of where they're saying to

me, they would like to leave their employment because of one

particular reason. And then I turn around and say,

well, have you actually talked to your, have you actually

talked to your boss about that? And just, you know, put that out

there and been open about it. And the amount of times when

actually that that's then being resolved and that person, the

best thing for them is then to remain in their in their

employment. They're probably a bit scared.

Yeah, well, I think, oh, they just, they just get rid of me.

No, that's right. That's right.

So sorry. I've lost my train of thought

slightly. It's been rather a long day.

But yeah, I think, I think, I think, you know, it's a

different consideration if somebody's out of work, for

example, and they and they're just looking for a start

relatively swiftly, then then in those instances I would

recommend to people pick up wherever employment is there and

crack on. But you know, when it's people

who are a bit more careful and considered about the direction

their careers taking and they're not really like a full on active

job seeker, but they would like to understand and hear about

opportunities externally, those are more more the people I'm

typically speaking to day-to-day.

You do sometimes get people who are simply out of work and want

a job and they're they're, they're rare, to be honest.

OK, that's it. There's some good information

they're giving out tonight. You've helped a lot of people.

Thank you. Where would where would you like

to see pest management go? Have you got any thoughts on

pest management? Yeah, anything in general.

Right, in general. So what I honestly think in

general is that pest management is a, you know, massive, like

massively diverse and really interesting skilled trade and

just a brilliant opportunity for any, I was going to say

youngsters, but people of any age who are perhaps changing

career or indeed starting their working life and to, to get into

and to pursue a career within. I think what would I like to

see? I'd probably like to see a bit

more respect, to be honest, for pest management.

And I'd probably like pest management to be perceived on

par with all of the other, all of the other skilled trades

basically. And you know, on all aspects of

it from pay, I'd like, I'd like, you know, pest control tax to be

paid as much as brick layers. I'd like you know, or, or

electricians or whatever it might be.

And I don't actually see why they can't be because from my

perspective, pest control technicians are playing a

critical and the whole industry, you're playing a massive role,

really important role in protecting public health.

You're protecting the environment you're dealing with,

you're dealing with materials that are potentially, you know,

dangerous and need to be dealt with in the correct manner,

though, you know, this is, this is a skilled professional trade

basically. So I would like to see a little

bit more perception change perhaps from, you know, away

from that kind of archaic, the rat catcher type thing and more

towards like a modern modern science professional, which is

where I consider pest pest management sits.

Yeah, I know. You are right, but I was talking

about a while ago to another pest control of America, about

why we are on the same level as builders, gas engineers.

And you know what you said? It's because we're not under the

eye of yeah. Like, you know, when you're

building, you're in someone's house, you're under the YEAH of

compliance. The regulator.

Regulator says you've not got them breathing over your neck.

It says if they were, if they were, we'd get paid more.

This is a lot. Of that's correct that that

yeah, that's correct. So.

Just like I know. Yeah.

We we did. We did a job where we had to go

and we sort the mice out and it was to replace the pipe on the

washing thing. Yeah.

I couldn't believe it. It was £400.

I was like, what? Yeah, what is?

It one visit. So that I think to be honest

that that relates to that relates to like a barrier to

entry in the industry in terms of you know how hard is it to

start a pest control company, how onerous are the regulatory

requirements etcetera. And then, and then that then

leads to how much supply there is in the market and then from

there what the prices are etcetera.

And like it's only my personal opinion, I think the bar is too

low in pest control. And the reason I think that is

like for example, if I really wanted to start a pest control

company, I can get a safe use course, get a website and crack

on basically. And I think is that right?

Necessarily when there's an opportunity there given the fact

that the the substances and actives being dealt with can be

risky etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, is that an opportunity

to actually raise that a bit and constrict the supply as a result

and get customers paying pest control in line with other

skilled trades as a result of that it is even possible.

I don't know to be honest, but. It's people much higher up than

me. I don't think it, I don't think

it will, I don't think the situation will change

significantly on that to be honest because I mean, I know

there's obviously been been, you know, some changes recently

etcetera around that and but. It's not that much of a big.

Deal. No, it's not.

It's not to do. Them.

And it's just a bit toothless, isn't it?

Because if you don't want to do it and you don't want to do any

of that CPD and you just want to get a safe use course once every

five years, you can. And it doesn't.

You can. Do that.

As long as you're not part of a trade body, you can do that.

Yeah, exactly. But if you're.

Just if you're just in a yeah, you wouldn't even need to bring

your CPD body. You are people out there.

Just do that. But I mean as it, but I mean as

it relates to an actual barrier to entry to operate in

professional pest management in the UK, there is almost no

barrier to entry whatsoever really other than a safe user

which is very simple to get. So would it be beneficial to

raise that barrier to entry and therefore constrict the supply

and raise the prices and get pest control on par with other

skilled trades? And could you do it?

Maybe. I don't know.

I don't think it will happen. You have a good point there.

I think this might be be connected Adam's just put in the

chat. What's your take on actual wage

structure for technicians George?

Do you think they're totally undervalued with them with how

many risk associated whether it be on site, serving, servicing

products, diseases etcetera? I was on 16 KA year when I

started. I was doing silo clean all over

the country, egg nest removals on high roads etcetera.

So many risks associated. Just interested to see a view

from a recruiters above a recruiters perspective.

Well, I think the first thing I'd say on that is every single

technician who goes out there and does the actual hard work

has my respect. And I think they earn every

single penny that they get. I really do.

Yeah, I agree with anyone being paid 16 K, absolutely not.

I think that probably relates to some years ago, to be honest.

I know that. Yeah, it.

Was a few years ago it wasn't, Yeah.

Yeah, I think the minimum wage now is probably I think full

time something around not far off 25,000 now maybe it's a bit

more than that. No, look, I think I, I, I don't

personally worry about this. And the reason I don't is I

think the market thoughts it out.

So nobody's compelled to remain in a job at all.

So anyone who's not particularly happy with their pay is, is

absolutely free to, to, you know, if they think they're

underpaid, they're absolutely free to go and get their real

value elsewhere. That's true.

So, so I don't, I don't worry about that too much.

I do come across instances that are just egregious.

Like there was someone last year who I spoke to this person and

they told me what they'll be. They told me what they're being

paid. And I won't go into the

specifics, but it was very modernist.

And I said to this person, I think we should be aiming for an

increase of 10,000 on a salary from from like low.

I think there were maybe 24K there or I don't think you

should be aiming for about 34. And they and they and they

managed to get that, but that that's an, that's an unusual

situation. It's quite rare to come across

people who are actually egregiously underpaid in the

market. There are some companies that

still do it, but I think it's counterproductive to be honest,

because you're just never going to, you're never going to

attract or retain the people that you actually need if you're

going to pay rates that just don't really pique anyone's

interest particularly. So no, I think I think employers

incur a lot of risk as well. And it's fine to say, you know,

the employer makes money and I should get more of that in pay.

And in some cases it's accurate. But on the other hand, I've

known that for a long time that if, if you want, if you want

someone to pay you, if you want to work for somebody else and

you want them to pay you a pound, you're going to have to

earn them 3 lbs, you know, and that's just how it is.

So I think my answer has probably changed, especially in

recent years coming finding now there's a lot, a lot more of the

technicians now are better paid, I think and more fairly paid

than was the case even even 345 years ago.

So now on balance, I'll have to say no and solely because it's a

free market and anyone who's not happy with their with their pay

is absolutely free to go and get their real value elsewhere.

Yeah. I know, but I've added in

because I haven't mentioned it. We also put yeah that 16 K job,

it was was years back because I generally think if you want to

bring youngsters through who show genuine interest and stick

to it, they need to help the waste structures even for

starters. Yeah.

I mean, that's, that's, that's a problem actually, that's a

specific problem as it relates to pest control And that is

that, you know, there's no, I don't think it's particularly

viable really to pay green trainees much more than no, I

think paying the minimum wage or in around that and makes sense.

And, and, and that person at that point, they're not

necessarily doing the role because it is the highest paying

employment they can get, right then it's because it's a career.

And I think people do, people do get that they're going to start

on the lower pay as they're learning and training and

increase that as they gain more experience and qualifications.

But it's. Like doctors, a lot of them

start off low, then eventually some of them will be on a lot

more, yeah. Yeah, look, I think it had to be

honest, it, it has, it has for, you know, some considerable

years been been an industry where, you know, the, the, the

pay perhaps hasn't been the best in, in amongst other industries

and sectors. And, you know, people I think

choose pest, pest management for other other reasons and other

considerations rather than rather than specifically the the

pay. But yeah, we're definitely

benefit us. And it's a good thing that the

salary inflation. I know it's a pain for

employers, but it's it's a good thing.

Because if we didn't have a situation where the decent techs

are now all on, pretty much all on something starting with a

three, then, you know, we'd be losing more and more and more of

them to other industries. So, you know, that's.

Yeah, that that's a good thing. Like I say, people in this

industry, it's, you know, it's challenging and important work

and hard work and they deserve to be well paid.

And I'm pleased to see it increasing.

Yeah. I.

Know it's good to hear it. It's good.

It's been really fascinating. I mean the chat, I've had loads

of comments tonight. A lot of the time I don't I

don't get anyone talking, but I've had the chat going loads.

But yeah, it's it's an interesting topic.

It's something different and then I hope everyone's gained

something from it because I certainly have.

Is there anything else you wanted to mention?

No, I. Think that's all.

It's just nice to come and have a chat and I know it's a

different, it's a different perspective to others.

Good. It's what I want.

Yeah. But no, look, Sean, I I

absolutely love, I absolutely love what I do in the job.

And it's, it's great and it's challenging and difficult at

times. But ultimately I'm speaking

with, you know, people who were further in themselves, whether

it be, you know, taking on a new opportunity and and developing

their employment career. Or people who are growing a

business or even growing a business to sell a business and

you know, they're, they're going to bring it all to fruition.

And, and that sort of stuff. It's it's great.

And yeah, I think for me where where we've probably had success

over the years has been, it's not bums on seats, It's not

one-size-fits-all. It's very much for the, for the

candidates, it's about, you know, what are their motivations

and what would suit them as an individual.

And for the companies, it's about how can we go above and

beyond just the churn of the same job applicants And how can

we how can we identify and attract the people who might not

be job seekers, but they might be the people that we need to

take this business forward. So it's a constant challenge and

really enjoyable that's. Good.

It's good to hear that. Do you want to give your

business a plug for people? If anyone's interested the

lessons. Yeah, thank you.

So the, the business is, is simply G&L Recruitment

Consultants, which is G George and L Liam who I work with.

And I'm quite, I'm quite active on LinkedIn and Facebook.

And if anyone wants to find me regarding their own career

development and jobs or indeed regarding their own business and

team and adding technicians or indeed surveyors or other other

individuals to the team, then probably best to find me on

that. Yeah, No, he's been, he's been

good. He's definitely active.

He's you can always get older, George.

You can. I've got the phone, I've got the

phone chain chain to my wrist the last 13 years in this in

this line of work. Definitely.

But yeah, yeah, also everyone, if you're want to log your CPD

with whoever you're with with basis prompt, you could, you

won't be able to get a code for this specific episode, but

everywhere else where you can self register, you'll be able to

self register points. So yeah, thanks everyone and

thanks George. Thank you very much, Sean.

Thank you. Thank you.

And I'll speak to you soon. Definitely.

Thank you. Cheers.

Cheers. Bye bye.

Bye.

Tonight's Episode