Women in Pest Control: Rodents, Training & Building a Career | Hannah Godfrey

0:02 Yeah. Hello and welcome to Pest Perspectives episode number 64. This week we have on Anna Godfrey from Godfrey Pest Management and also MPTMPTAS Women in Pest Control committee member and first time podcaster. Yeah, how are you doing? Yeah, good. How are you? I'm good, thanks. Nice to finally get a chat. Yeah, because if people don't know, we talk on WhatsApp through voice notes. Yeah, that varies different things, what we're up to etcetera, like pest control wise. And we've never actually had a chance because I if we know someone knows your voice, this will sound quite funny at Pestech.

0:53 And I heard my voice. I'm spun ahead round. I know that voice. Yeah, I did. I had that the other day actually, because I get some emails sometimes on the podcast. I had this e-mail off his chap and he got always some advice and I rang him. I know that voice, Sean. To. Tell you guys, I know your voice well and what it was is there was a project mentioned in an episode where I had my Scottish friend on and he's got a bit of a thick accent and he didn't understand what he said. So I had to tell him it was pervy chalk.

1:37 It was. But he's got a bit of a nice bloke. He's got a bit of a thick accent. So if you look, if you read the transcript, it says pervy chalk. It sounds like a chalk. So hello, Hello Meg. Meg. Meg's there on YouTube. That's my sister. Talking about you about something before the podcast. All good stuff though. All good. Stuff. Yeah, yeah. Hello, Jackie. Oh. You're a YouTube star now, aren't you? You're on YouTube. Yeah, I know. So my my son might be downstairs. He's he loves watching YouTube and all the brain well, but he they might be watching it downstairs.

2:20 So and also prior warning, his team Southampton are playing tonight. So if we hear tears in the background or booze or crying, it will be that.

2:33 No, that's all right. That is so obviously you. You want to know before we get into what I brought you on, I want to tell everyone how you got into pest control because you, you, no, it's tradition. There was a lot of like saying that I I joined my dad but I think yours was similar. Similar, yeah and I was trying to remember actually because I think had we started talking when you had you just qualified or you were just about to do your exams? I can't remember I'm. Just trying to remember how we got to talk to each other.

3:15 I know. I was like scratching my brain. It was like, it's like Jackie that's in chat and I think it's due with the WASP poll last year I did. Ever make yourself a WASP poll? Don't tell everyone to DM you. I. Used to have a different Facebook profile called Sean Muller Pest control and Facebook shut it down because there's not many DMS messages. They thought something was going. On Oh, it was spamming, yeah. And I eventually found her again, and I've been speaking to WE. We send voice notes back and forward, guys.

3:50 It's much easier talking Sean than narrowing to type it out. Oh, it is though. Especially like you and I, when if we have something funny happen like in the day or whatever, well, it's just easier to voice note, isn't it? It is a lot of people are quite lazy, but it's just easier. I think you can like articulate yourself better, can't you? And. Now if we don't want to listen to it, I don't you turn it on in your settings on WhatsApp anyway, actually transcribe what you've said. As well, Yeah. I always do listen but I notice at the setting it's on it's on Instagram as well.

4:26 Oh, OK. Yeah, I can't remember. I can't remember I I have a feeling it was around the time you were doing your exams because I'd not long done mine so or I'd done it maybe a year, but. But yeah, the RSPH Level 2 award. Yeah, you've got a visitor there. You won't be able to see it. It's got something, but yeah, I can't not, I can't remember. No, I can't remember either, but I. Will find out, I'll see if I can remember. Yeah. But but yeah, so it's pretty game off with it at. Least Yeah, I have. Yeah, I. Don't know people.

5:18 I have offered her on the podcast a couple. Of times I have. Yeah, you have many times. And it's never pressure. I'm not. It's not hundreds. No. If you ever want to. Yeah, I. Thought this moment would come. Here we are. You've built this. You've built. This, yeah. Confidence wise because you are better than you think you should have more confidence in yourself because. Yeah, we. Do. Yeah. You're very you seem to be very good at what you do. You should be proud. Thank you. Thank you. I. Am nice little company.

5:54 You are, it is. I think like I said to you before I came on, it's it's a very big industry. A lot of people do things how they do things and putting yourself out there it it's especially I still, even though I've been in the industry for four years now, if I go back to, you know, you wanted to find out how I started. So originally this business was my mother in law's. She was semi retired and she was working for the riding for disabled and she was the stable manager there. All of my in laws are like horsey people.

6:34 So my husband's a farrier, his brother's a farrier. And so, yeah, she stepped away from being a yard manager and she started doing pest control, mainly to bring a bit of money in to help keep her horses and then to help with the pest control on the farm. And then I think she worked for a, one of the firms around here, one of the local firms for a few years and then went out on her own. And then I came in around lockdownish time. He didn't want to do the paperwork for the business. He didn't like filing or bookkeeping or anything like that.

7:20 So I started doing that for her. And at that time, like I said, I think we're in lockdown. So my husband, they were shutting down like locking down stables. So they didn't want like multiple barriers there. So he was doing like some work, but then he did his qualification for the pest control and so he was doing a bit of that on the side as well, which was cool. Yeah. I mean, he goes to yards, Wasps nests and rats. It's just, you know, he's got his box in the back of the van and it's just, you know, it's a bit of an add on for him.

8:03 So yeah, worked really well. And then she decided that she wanted to retire. So she asked me if I wanted the business. Obviously Rob, my husband, he's, he's got a well established business now for about 20 years, 25 years. So yeah, I did the, I know this is a topic close to your heart. I did the one day course for the rodenticides. Oh, no issues. I've got no issues with that at all. I, I remember doing it, I did it mainly so I could order for the business at the time and order for my husband because, you know, and then remembering that and looking up time and again, can I really go out and treat rats just doing this certificate?

8:49 That didn't take me very long. I did mine in lockdown. I did mine with Kel Germ. So yeah, it was, it was literally you, you, you. They give you the material, you listen to it on your phone or tablet or PC or whatever. Then you did the exam when you were ready. Passed them first time both. Yeah, I did as well. And the rodents, yeah, I'm not appreciate with it if you. Have the intentions? To move on and do your because I don't I don't suggest anyone starts out and just does the the RSPH level to awarding pest management.

9:28 I think it's too much. Yeah, it is she. Gets some experience, do the basics and then a few years later like I did, I started in 2020. I didn't actually do my yeah, I think I didn't actually pass till 2024 time. But I failed my first exam. I passed the rodents and I failed the other two modules. So I had to read it, but I passed. Next time, yeah, yeah. No, I think that's when we started talking because I think I remember you'd done one and then yeah, you hadn't done the other two. But so I did that and then I found so training for me.

10:12 Obviously I'm a stay at home mum. I was working at the time as well and doing like going away and good for is it 3-5 days? Something like that just didn't work for me. And also doing that amount of like info dumping and then having the pressure of the exam on the back of it. Are you on about well are you on about the residential course that the BPC? Yeah, I couldn't do that, No. I had, I had a friend on and he did that and he didn't pass and. No. Because some people in exam situations fall to pieces.

10:52 Yeah. And it's like that. I mean, some people, some people on paper are clever, know everything. But when you put a piece of paper in front of them, the way they word some of the questions, they fall, they fall apart. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just, it's like, it's a lot of information and I think it's, it's, so it's, you need to know little bits of everything over such a, a broad spectrum of everything that it was just a lot. So I, I managed to find someone I've trained with Olly Madge and he, I, I got in contact with him and I just said, look, this is my situation.

11:35 Can I train with you one to one? But can we do it over like a period of time? So I think I did it. We worked out, he was great. He he let me work out my own schedule and then we would have like calls so he could teach me like 1 to 1 and ask some questions and and do that. And so I would self study. I have I still have my book now with I did. He got me to do like loads of note cards, so like loads of note cards with like information on and so I could train and learn how, how I learn effectively. And then I went down to him in Andover, which was an old stomping ground of mine and I did my exams with him.

12:21 So he he sat in and I did my exams there. So yeah. And that's nearly three years ago now. I think it's about 3 years ago this year. And that was that.

12:42 Sorry, getting asked where the juice is, Sorry. I've got kids. I understand. So yeah. And then then I started to slowly sort of take over the business. My mother-in-law wasn't ready to completely hand it over, but so I started taking the business over from then. Nice, I've still got all my notes from when I did it as well. I remember that because ours was different. It was like one week and then you had two days and exam and another week, two days exam. But every time after I'd done the exam, my brain was fried.

13:21 Everyone was talking. I was like, I can't take them. Away so much information. People asking like real technical questions that wouldn't even be an exam. But I was happy on one of the occasions because there was everyone said, what about the the larvae question, you know, bully, bully bear, the question. And we all talked about it after and I was the only one. And they all go, what did you put? It's a put woolly bear. And they and I was the one they went. Yeah, Debbie went. That would have been the correct answer.

13:54 Everywhere else. You didn't listen hard enough. The problem is sometimes you've got to listen. Look at the question. I've read it a few times because you can misconstrue what it what it's actually saying. It's not. What is it commonly known as? Yeah, I. Think it was. I remember that. I remember, yeah, Ollie saying. It's how they word it. A lot of it and you can come back to it sometimes some of the questions that are connected. Yeah, if you read like the ones afterwards, it kind of, yeah, sometimes it can flow a bit.

14:30 But yeah, it's just so much information. And I think over time as well, certainly as the years go by and the more and more I'm doing this, I think if you, if you check back in with your notes, things start to fall into place a lot better, I think. I might go back through them and have a. Look, because then you'll read yeah, like I've got. I've got quite an old pest management folder. I think a lot of it probably stills still applies to a degree. I've got that one too. They're very. Quite an old one, yeah, I did think about getting the new one.

15:04 But I think if you read through it more when you, when you put everything that we've been taught into practise, it makes so much more sense. Whereas at the time of the exam it's really abstract and so. What through me with the the insects was this right? Never done cockroaches. That's what threw me. I didn't know anything so it. Was hard for. Me to exalt but and there was questions on cockroaches. Yeah. Next time I was I was nearly an expert. Didn't come up, did it? No no of course not and I don't I've never since I've so.

15:47 I live in semi rural Oxfordshire so I would say 90% of my work is rodents and I do a bit of wasp work in the summer and maybe a bit of ants but aside from that insects I just I don't get calls for and so. Like, as you say, cockroaches. We don't, we never get them. I think this family, wherever they lived, I'm guessing they moved from a city. I think they bought the problem with you have. No, Yeah. Yeah, I mean the fan. I've never done a job, nor has my dad in the whole time he's run run this firm.

16:28 I think they brought the issue with them. Oh yeah. Is it like usually in fridges? Isn't it bottom of fridges and stuff where the boat is warm? They had, they had a lot of boxes of food with them. Oh, really? I think they had, they were in the boxes. I can't prove it, mind. Yeah, it was a very rare case. I probably won't do cockroaches again for another five years or more. No, I've not even moths like I don't. Yeah. Do you? I think my husband. It's quite rural. Moths are quite a rural, yeah. I know, I know, I think, I think word is getting out that I'm kind of like the rat and mouse lady and so I'm happy to go with that.

17:10 I would happily specialised in that completely. I think that's where I get most of my I don't know I'd get most joy out of any job is like doing a mouse or a rat job, even though it can be quite gross sometimes, but. But I'll be honest, since like COVID times, I mean, you do get rats of mouse jobs in the summer now, don't you? You never use, you know. What I'm seeing them in the day as well, like in the like daytime. And a lot of my customers as well are saying, you know, we've seen them in the day.

17:43 It used to be like dusk and dawn. Like here we've had a squirrel and a rat problem. We've got a, an ongoing rat problem here. Three sides of our houses surrounded by fields. And then we've got like a, a kind of like a tech park on the other side and then a ditch in between. And that's where they're coming from. I can see where they're coming and going, but my dog's had them, Sonny's had them more. I think he's caught more than we haven't. You know, we've got traps down and stuff. But yeah, it's just.

18:17 That's a. That's what. You can never really solve it, can you? No, you can't, and not out here either. No, it's frustrating, especially when you, you know, when you've seen the damage they do and the stink and when it's getting closer and closer to your house. It's OK when they're out in the back garden, but when they're getting closer and closer to your house, it's more and more unnerving. And I think actually as a pest controller myself, it can really help empathise. You can empathise with your customers to a degree when you've experienced that problem yourself.

18:56 Yeah, they're. In my shed balls. Oh, we had them in the shed as well. Oh, I say shed. They're like, they're like old coal bunkers. Yeah, we've got one used in the cottages. We have Guinea pigs and I told. I've got Guinea pigs as well. Not to buy the hay in hay Bale. No, we haven't. We haven't done it since I saw an issue out and cleared it all out but not happened since. But we do have Guinea pigs. 8 Guinea pigs used to have about. Eight. We got 3. I've got, I've probably not shown you, I have to show you the outdoor room, but one day it's massive.

19:37 Yeah, you should. Oh, I love Guinea pigs. They're great. We don't. Have don't have any cats in our area. They've got a bit they can't get out and they're always safe to Guinea pigs are too fast. They are fast, aren't they? Yeah. I love them I. Thought I'd shown you. I'll show you no. How funny that we've both got Guinea pigs. Yeah, as well. The love of rodents, right? Rodents. Rodents. That picture I sent you, that's actually a Kapi Bara sat on my lap. The one that you put on your. Thing when she made it yesterday, Kapi Bara, she went, you know, because you're on YouTube, you go Kapi Bara, Kapi Bara yeah, memes.

20:16 And she was like, then she did the thumbnail. She did. Yeah, she. Said yeah, Kapi Bara, she'd love to do that. Oh, it was brilliant. We did it for my son and there are four of them and they come over and they kind of like chit and chat away a bit like a Guinea pig, but like a bit deeper. And they're about the size or they're about the size of a really big dog. And I, I can't remember if these ones were fully grown or not, but they just, they just sat on my lap. It just jumped on my lap. And they, they feel really, really coarse, like really, really coarse hair, but they're docile as anything.

20:56 It was so cool. So you, so also you are involved in the the Mptas women in pest control. This is a new, relatively new committee, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Yeah, we are. What's the idea of it trying? Yeah, Pest. Control but. Yeah, yeah. So obviously I've done that article. I did the article for the MPTA last month. Are you going to bring it up for a yeah, that? Was all so many newsletter, weren't it? Yeah, it was. Probably can't all say that it's probably blurred on your. Screen. No, it's quite tiny writing, isn't it?

21:45 But I'll bring it up. Yeah, No, I so I did that.

21:52 So we the committee kind of joined. So there's, there's a few of us, we all bring different things. We all have different levels of experience in different sectors. We've got new technicians, I'd say new. I still feel new sometimes, but you know, relatively new technicians. Yeah, yeah, I think. Don't fail your skill because I'm on the board of the MPTA. I know. I'm the newest technician on the board. Yeah, I've literally not been 2020. So what? We are 86 years. Six years. Yeah, there's. People on there, they've been technicians 40 plus years.

22:31 Yeah. But I think it's good that we have like those of us that are coming in and coming through just, you know, we see the industry very, we'd see it from a different point of view. And we have people, you know, we've got members that have been that work in different sectors of the, you know, of the industry. And we also have, you know, people that own their own businesses, their families may own businesses as well. And they've been in, you know, longer than I have in some kind of form. So it's great.

23:01 And we all, you know, we all experience the industry differently and we all see different kind of. I say. Barriers, I think there aren't a lot of barriers for women to come into the industry, but I do think those barriers that are there, you know, it it's a way for us to kind of bridge that gap and just try and, you know, show the wider public that actually this career is for anyone. It's not as great as everyone makes out to be. I remember the first time going out on my own, just thinking to myself, how on earth am I going to deal with a dead rat in a box?

23:42 But you do it once and then you're like, actually, it's not that bad. And it's the same, you know, you use a little better. Like me? No, I get my hands. In there I don't I use. A little better, do you know? Oh, yeah, I just get in there. Yeah, I'm not bothered. I, I I'll. Be quite often if it if it's a trap, you just pick the trap up and straight into the bin bag. So I'll do that, but it it, but sometimes I don't. I do. I do use a litter picker. Obviously, when it's squirrel in the WCS, you've really got to pull it out with your hands.

24:14 Yeah, you. Have, yeah, but yeah. And I think the mainly, I mean, we're still quite established. We're still kind of like finding our feet with it. I think mainly we'd love to be.

24:30 Kind of a place. Where if there are women out there that and even now, if there are women out there that are looking to come into pest control, if you're in pest control and you feel quite alone with it for whatever reason, if you're finding barriers, if you're finding that you know, you're struggling with something and it's such a male dominated industry. I mean, we only make up 5%. It's just, I feel like it's we'd love to be a point of contact for those people. And also, you know, if there are employers out there that just want a female perspective, if they're looking to diversify, then you know, we're totally open to having those sorts of conversations.

25:10 So like I say, we're still quite newly established and I think we all bring in different things around the industry that we would love to kind of have a positive impact on. So thank you there. She goes there. She. Is hi Jasmine Jasmine. He's the There you go. She's the chair of the Women in pest control. She's the chair of the MPTA. She is. She's. Amazing. She's Yeah. I can really feel her energy, sort of. She really wants to like get, get in, get into it, you know, like learn about the industry and certainly from a female perspective as well because, you know, she doesn't do technician work like I do.

25:54 So I'm hoping she'll come out with me one day. I have to come down for a visit. I have. Suggested Jasmine. Why don't you go out of a few of your committee, absolutely, and have a? Look at what to. Do but no, sorry Jasmine, I've changed the podcast so it's 8:00 PM now. So they're all 8:00 PM. That's my fault because I used to have always half eight, half eight, half eight, but I've dropped it to 8:00 now. Yeah, that's my fault. I do advertise it as 8:00, but no, but no. Yeah, yeah. Come up with you, get some hands on experience.

26:31 Yeah, absolutely. Or anywhere. I'm I'm going to go and at some point I was, I'm going to go up and see where, where it's all made at some point. Only about an hour and a. Half and she says, oh, it's not farther. When she's free, I'll come up and she'll show me the Thatcher and Edison she. Was 3 or 4 hours. Away. So I lived on the map. I mean, I was only an hour and a half away. I could do that one day, yeah. And she? Does want a day out with you? There you go. Yeah. Yeah, it'd be really cool. It'd be really cool.

27:07 I'd love to take people out with me, especially like women as well, so they can just see kind of what we do and what we get into. And actually kind of like I say, I think there's for pest controllers in general. I think there's this real kind of preconceived notion that what we do is like, I don't know, it's like a necessary evil, isn't it? To a degree? Like these jobs need to be done, but I don't think it's as bad as people think it is. I think we do see a lot of stuff that the public don't see.

27:40 But actually as a career, it's so much more nuanced than, you know, it's not just simply going out, seeing that there's a rat hole and then Chuck and bait down, is it? It's so much more than that. And I don't think people really appreciate that either. Just how our minds have to work so logically. And, you know, we spot those little things that the the public just don't. Yeah, because I. I was at a job, what, a fair few weeks ago and he had to trap out the if you were rats in the garden. He told me what he thought they were.

28:16 I'd look around. I went, it's there. I said it's there. But you see that big hole? Oh, I see it now. Yeah, yeah, that's your train. Die, he said. That's your, that's your train Die. Obviously I'd bother, bait it safely, etcetera. I sorted this out. Yeah. But yeah, he says, that's the train. Die, he says. Yeah, it is the train. Die. I think it gets better over time. I've certainly gotten better over time. I think in the beginning just. Yeah, I'm yeah, Compared to now, yeah, I look. You know. I try and I try and look for entry points, etcetera, which you're always supposed to do, but I was never confident when it, yeah.

28:58 I'm confident I. Look, look for more entry points, etcetera. Drive. Past Oakham so often, Sean. Yeah, she was in Stamford one day having a drink with a client, then realised that, oh, Sean, Sean's not far from Stamford. I was like, really? I was having Posh. Coffee in in the George Hotel. Oh, right, we will. We will sort it out eventually. But yeah, it's true, Jasmine, I think the industry is really undervalued by those who aren't involved in it. It's. I do. Get the comment, I suppose you do do your job.

29:36 I said to her. You do realise a lot of the time I said I don't see them. She went around and says often I I see them dead. I don't actually see them running up to me. A lot. I have had that, don't get me wrong with the farm ones, the babies came out. The Burrows. The babies will come will come right up to you. Wow, babies. The baby rats have got No Fear. No, they haven't. Yeah. That was a big job. That was that farm. That place is sold off now. But yeah. But yeah, it is interesting because like, that, that would be the biggest test if, like, apparently.

30:13 What did you hear about these stories about this farm people used to go to? Pest control farm. When you're learnt, I don't think what church farm or something, it's not down here. Somewhere it's shut down. Now it is it shut down during COVID because of funding etcetera. I feel like and Alex my husband went to. One Alex Wayne. Said on the podcast a lot he talks about it. He said big testing ground. A lot of them used to Chuck their technicians in with the there's a whole Bay of rats, but a lot of them used to Chuck them in there to see if they can cope with it.

30:51 Yeah, I wonder if that is. Damn self somewhere, because I feel like I've heard of that. Like someone who? Yeah, I might. Have got the name wrong but that would be amazing if they could ever get something like that to be reopened again. Oh, wouldn't it? That'd be really cool. I think it'd be really good to put that learning to like, you know, like if you went before an exam as well, because you'd be able to just it would I feel like a lot of that information were kind of like sinking put that learning to use before.

31:22 I think it would help you answer the questions and do the exam a lot more confidently. Well, I. Think I, I don't, I'm not involved in the new feature framework for, for pest control. I do believe that they are adding practical elements into the court into the exams. I don't know how they're doing it. I don't know. But this was all, you know, in all the survey. I'm only getting this off surveys. Yeah, I've got. I've got no. Inside knowledge. I'm not. I've got nothing to do with it. I do know there's a practical element meant to be.

31:56 There is. I think it's just here we go. John. Hi. John The. Industry is not so much undervalued by customers, it's pest control text cutting prices to beat the imagine. And. Competition, race to the bottom. I know how you feel. About that, John, it was good to see. You at past decks in London, John, and then I go out with. John, we, we do, I learn from John a lot from John. And yeah, I go out and do drains with him sometimes. So we yeah, we do the cod on these sorts of things. And it's really interesting to hear it from someone that he's who's been in the industry as long as he he teaches me something every time we go out.

32:44 So nice. Yeah. One of my. First guests, John, you are. Yeah, we finally met. At Pastex, we shook hands. We did. Oh. That's nice. We did. But yeah, yeah, no. And he is right though. I mean, Mason, Hi. No, yeah. Cost is the whole thing though, isn't it? I think when you, you're undercutting so much, you're undervaluing yourself. I remember we had a conversation a couple of years ago about the cost of stuff, didn't we? And I think I actually sat down over like a Christmas holiday and I went through, I went through a day in the life of like a standard day and worked out how much everything cost me in terms of mileage, how much a pair of gloves or two is blocks of bait and all this, that and the other.

33:41 And I set my prices to that because you can guess around and about. Very funny. The invoice would be in the price. Cheeky bugger.

33:53 Yeah, I, I sat down. I mean, I'm only a very small business as well. So it's just me on my own, out on the tools. I dropped my kid off to school. I work in the day and then I pick them up from school and you know, if I have to work evenings, I will do most of the time most people are in. So I work a very small working day probably compared to most full time pest controllers. So me being able to sit down and kind of calculate everything is probably, you know, people don't have the time to do that, but I did.

34:25 And that's how I set my price because, you know, 1/3 for me, 1/3 for the, and the rest goes into the, you know, instead for tax and then the rest for ticking over. So yeah, I think you have to break your costs down and actually really seriously work it out rather than making a quick buck. The problem? Is there is, yeah, he's right. It's a big issue in industry with people.

34:53 I'm not mentioning any names but there is firms out there that will do it for £30 a month and then and then they will complain about the level of service they're getting. Yeah, you know, but then. If you can't match that, they won't don't want you. You can't match that. Sorry, My, your screen's fine. Oh, online it's. Gone a bit dark, sorry. I think it's just where the sun's going down. I. Think you've been Durham? He is coming on soon, so they'll be a really great guy on Oh Great. I've got that many guests.

35:28 Booked up till July. I can't remember what date, but it's in the calendar so. Good it. Is but yeah, so around have you because obviously it's not just about getting trying to get more women into pest control. It's got to be the right type of woman to come in. It can't just be you know, I'm just ticking a box. It's got to be the right person that's passionate about this new career, isn't it? It's not. Yeah, it's. Getting someone for the. Sake of getting someone and it's got to be the right kind of person as well, yeah.

36:02 I think I heard that. On podcast once, but they say it's not just ticking a box. You've got to get the right type of person you know. You know women. Diversity, etcetera. But the person's got to want to do the job. Yeah, they have. It's not tick. Ticking the box, you've got to get the right kind of person, you know, because not everyone has to be a pest controller. Becoming the industry you could be. There's loads of different roles. You could. There is that many different roles within the industry.

36:33 You don't have to be a past technician. No. You are. No. I am. But you don't have to be, no. There's all sorts of different roles, isn't there? I'm moving around within the industry as well. I'm still there, you know, different, different pathways, etcetera. It's yeah. I don't think I could do anything other than be a technician though. I enjoy it too much. I like being out with the customers. I, I have a nice little, I have routines as well. So I, you know, I have customers that I go and see monthly and then obviously a mix of it's now mainly residential, I think.

37:09 And then I have like quite a few businesses that I service on a regular basis and a lot of them we've had since my mother-in-law had it. So they've, you know, they've stayed, which is lovely. That's. A reflection on you because you must be good because I've kept you on board. You say, oh, I hope so. OK. Great job. Yeah, yeah. The thing is just. You've just got to be honest with them and upfront I think about everything in terms of treatment, in terms of price, in terms of, you know, I like to work with my customers as well.

37:45 So if you look at society as a whole, most people are environmentally conscious and becoming more environmentally conscious. And I know that our job, as I said before, it is a necessary evil and the job needs to be done. But that's not to say that we can't be empathetic with that customer and we don't carry out that job with, you know, some sort of grace, I guess. So a lot of people when I come in, they they say, oh, you know, I really don't want to get rid of them and I feel really bad for doing it or, you know, I wanted to do you live catch as well as one that I get quite a lot because obviously my, my tagline is I'm ecologically environmentally conscious.

38:32 So that's not to say that I don't use redundicides. I do. I just I'm quite heavy on. When to use? Them and how to use them and using them safely, which we should regardless of what we use, but I'm just quite heavy with that, so you know. When people a. Live. Catch. You obviously explain you're not allowed to do it with rats. Yeah, I don't live catch at. All I don't live catch at all I I just snap traps for everything. But I also always use it as a chance to educate my customers as well. So I'll have people that have live caught and then they say, oh, I've taken it.

39:14 You know, if they're in the middle of Digcot or whatever, which is like a town near us. Oh, I caught it and I, I took it to, you know, the woods up the road. And it's like, that's lovely. However, they've learnt to live in a city in a town and you've taken them to a place where they, they've never been before. So it's as much as I understand you've done that, it's quite likely that they would have perished. And so, yeah, and it's the same with like off the shelf redundicides as well. I use, you know, a lot of people are cost of living crisis, they don't want to get a pest controller out.

39:50 But it's a really good chance for us to educate our customers on if, you know, this is certainly where I am. We've got resistance. So I've got a very small amount of options now. But I sit and I explain to them, you know, this is we have resistance in the area. If you're going to use this, this is the safest way to use it. However, it's not going to be as effective as me coming in to do it. But I only ever really do that when I'm on site. I won't give that advice over the phone.

40:24 But yeah, it's if you also. Noticed an uptick recently of people ringing you trying to basically get all the information out about having to about you having to come and do the job. I've had a few like that. Yeah, a lot. A lot of people have. Been telling me recently a lot of people bringing up to try and get basically everything out you're going to do for them and what to buy. And yeah, there's been an uptick in that. And I get it, people who ain't got a lot of money in the economy, etcetera. But yeah, it's been a bit.

40:54 Do you? Want the job doing properly? It's not improper to do it exactly. It's. Saying, would you? Would you work on your own car if you if you didn't know what you were doing? Yeah. I know exactly.

41:11 It's the safety aspect. I think for me mainly it's the people that just dump it down. I think I went to a place where they'd got like bags of grain bait and then taking it out and then just I think they were getting them. It was a drains issue. She never wanted me to kind of investigate further, but I can guarantee you that's where they were getting in because I could see the hole through the wall in the kitchen and there was a drain right outside her window. But she was taking handfuls of it and just chucking it in like a gap between the units and expecting it to take.

41:48 And it's like, well, that's not going to do anything. It's going to make them poorly. And you know, but of course you didn't want me. I think that was AI was doing the neighbour next door and the neighbour next door said, oh, I've told the lady next door that you're coming around and I told her that you're a lady and to not worry. That's nice that yeah, that is. I bet that's reassuring for some people, because I think it is. It can be. Intimidating. Yeah, it's nice. I. Suppose you get that a lot.

42:19 I suppose you do get that a lot, don't you? I do, yeah. Yeah, I do. I think it's. But you know that I drive up with my little black van and then obviously I'm always answering the phone, so that I think they probably half expect a woman to answer the phone. But when it's a woman that gets out and me, I'm really short as well. I'm like 5 foot 1. So I'm just like this dumpy little thing with her massive like work bag and her big work boots on hurrying her ladder. Like, come on then, let's get up the attic, you know, get up in the laugh and see what's going on.

42:48 And yeah. And mainly, like the older ladies, they love it. They just like, they think it's brilliant that, you know, a lady pest controller. It's good. Yeah. Yeah. Many times I've said we do exist. We are out there. This is not very. Many of us, but yeah. I see this comment every, even in America a lot. I think there's more women technicians in America and maybe, yeah, I think. So it's a bigger country though. As well, isn't it? Yeah, but it's it's like my friends on the My friends Jenny and Candice from Pentagram podcast.

43:27 Yeah, yeah, I did. You listen to that one? That's a good podcast I haven't listened to them for. A while actually, I think when she started, when Jenny started out, I think we, we made a connection, but we didn't really kind of follow that up. I think we've both been quite busy. But she's now a branch. She's a. Branch manager for Trio is she that's. Amazing. Works for a small. Local business and they've opened up a new branch and she's the manager. Oh, that's. Incredible she is. Well done. That's awesome.

43:59 Yeah. Yeah. Not as much. As well. I try to but she's all busy. Isn't we time difference and? Stuff as well. Isn't it America that's the biggest? Issue. Yeah, it is. I have been on that podcast, so have you. It was all about. Weightlifting and health. And it was actually. Pest control. It was about weightlifting, why I do it, health, etcetera. That's why I went on it a while ago now. But yeah, I went on that. I did. We should do a bit more. Weightlifting really. But I mean, I can lift it, I can lift a manhole cover, so it's fine.

44:38 I do. Mine for mobility because I broke my knees for it because I need to stay strong. I think you do. In this industry anyway, don't you? If you think about how you, you know, if you're hauling yourself up a ladder and getting up and down off the floor, like if you're looking under units and stuff. And yeah, we need it, though I actually did do an. Article last year in the MP3 newsletter. Might, might, might have to redo one because it's a similar Maybe, maybe might I might do one. An updated version.

45:08 A different picture, updated version. Yeah, there's there's a really good guy on the Internet or just just looking up calisthetics, which is body weight exercises. I don't know if you started doing that before you started lifting weights, but my husband has been a farrier. He's, you know, bent over a lot and gets a lot of like rotator cuff injuries and stuff. But he does callisthenics and that's just body weight exercises and it's just functional movement that you can do. It doesn't take long. You can do it in about 10, 10 to 20 minutes and it's just functional movement to keep you mobile.

45:44 That's. That's that's I'll have a look. I will. Yeah, I do. I prefer to be down the gym. Yeah, I. Know I bet there's just like, yeah, I mean, I have. I know a lot of people. Down there, like, you know, it's kind of when I started out, I was very weak, yeah. We now from. When one of the one of the bigger people at the gym, yeah. Not, not the. Strongest, but yeah. But you all start out somewhere, don't you? You have to start. Somewhere, but I know me I. Know my limit, so I won't go above my limit.

46:19 Yeah, don't. People think my limit. 'S a bit high, but it's not. I remember. I know I've lost nearly 810 stone or whatever I'm. Still a big. Guy. So it's still got a lot of power behind me, yeah. Yeah, that's cool. No, I can lift the manhole cover. I can lift. I'll help my husband with boxes of shoes. They are. Yeah, I've done them. I've done them before. I can't remember if I wrote about it in the article. I think I might have done, but I remember doing one of those. Where you got it? No, you got have you lifted the ones where they're in two halves and you got pulled up?

46:55 They are I'll. I have beaten my. Dad. And that was a bit of a struggle, Yeah, 2. Of us? Yeah, the one about. The ones with a bit of plastic was the bricks. Yeah, that are. Like put into flagstone floor like paving. So I think they're. Ridiculous. They are the. Amount of ones that just break. The handles just break. It's ridiculous. But I can I can lift lift 1. I mean, you don't necessarily have to lift the whole thing. If you can get one edge out, you can drag it, I think, I think that's a a misconception there that you need to be strong.

47:24 There are Ways and Means of doing things. It's but so. There is equipment if you need to, there is equipment. So, you know, that's not like a barrier to a woman. You know, you can climb a ladder and you can drag something and it's not, you know. There are ways and. Means I can lift boxes of horseshoes. They're about 75 kilos. What I didn't notice in. Your article is you said that you lifted you lifted the drain cover. Why the man in the house stood there watching you. He did he. Stood there and watched me do and I don't, I think it was more because he probably, I mean, I'm probably assuming, but maybe he didn't want to get dirty.

48:07 I don't know. But yeah, he just, I was. And that was the flagstone, one of the flagstone ones. Oh, was. It yeah. And it was. Like, no, it's fine, I got it. I'm on it, don't worry. No, I'm stronger than. You it is. A little bit. Sometimes you want to say. Prove to me you can lift it. I'll let you pull it back. Yeah, yeah. And then I've done. Buildings before where we have because we have quite a lot of like I think they're Victorian houses in the town and they're cast iron ones and I can lift those ones pretty easy sometimes we.

48:46 Have to ask. We actually have sometimes with old builders. They cement them in, don't they? Yeah, yeah, about that, so. I've actually said to a customer you're going to have to get someone to get this fixed and sorted. I'll get it open and it's not my job to break your you'll have to get someone out to open it, make sure it shuts and closes. I don't know what goes on in builders head. Sometimes I'll just seal this up. Don't get that? I think I've done one with John actually before and it was, it was the house was at the end of like all the mains from the houses came and ended at this one and it kept like overflowing and the guy was told to seal it shut with something.

49:36 And so I can't remember. He said Thames Water, but I don't know. I think someone it was awful. It was so bad. And then he'd had like some kind of valve put in. I can't remember the details John will probably remember, but some kind of big old plastic valve that a rat could just gnaw through in no time at all. It was absolutely shambles, honestly, and that place flooded twice. I I don't. Believe a water board would tell you because that man, they actually own the the main line going through all the houses.

50:10 They own it, yeah. It was the one on his property, but it ended up he had to have a new one dug because he'd sealed it shut and we you couldn't get it open. And they had one put next to it like a plus. Like just yeah. Oh, it was just, it was crazy. It is mad what you see, isn't it it? Is yeah, it is. There's some crazy laws, too. It's like, you obviously know this. Hardly. If you have a Conservatory bill, you've got a drain in that like the situation you have there. Got to get an over. I think it's over built, over built agreement with the water board.

50:47 It's. Actually. Their drain. Oh, so there's been. Cases where the drain is blocked or something. Someone's had a brand new extension put on their house. It's flooded kitchen and the water board not. Mentioned any? Names, but they can come in your house. Open up your RIP up the kitchen and then they're not and they're not liable for it at all. I've had one of those. Before as well she's like I can't understand why I'm getting rat problem and it's like the builders have literally built and resin or this weird like PVC flooring.

51:25 I think it's a poor floor. And she's like, I can't understand how they're getting in. It's like, well, they built, you know, it's awful. Yeah, it's.

51:39 Have you this? Have you been on the? I don't suppose you need it, though. You ever been on the MPTA's rodent problem solving course? You specialised. You know what you do more rats. But I'll be honest, I don't know if you'd need it. I don't know. I'm. Always up for more learning. I love learning so it does sound good. Yeah, sound. Good. Any excuse? Really to learn a bit more, some of my photos are on. That course now? Oh, really? Yeah, because. I was chatting to Mark Wayne Wenmer that does it and and whether they do different versions depending which technical trainer does it.

52:21 I sent him some photos. I will say I've done some proofing today. I sent him some pictures of some vent cards being done and some chads pipe blockers so the rats can't get up the down pipes. Oh yeah, yeah, he's. Been showing. Them off it at the at the at the the course Oh. Really. Another Ave. For people to try, yeah. That's cool, Jackie. Told me since she actually went to 1 and I got a mention so they they got the the the Jason here yeah he he makes them what was that he? Said he had a practising Buddha yesterday, yeah.

53:01 You had you had the practising bud buddies yesterday customer. That was a bit challenging. I don't know what, Yeah. I can imagine. No, I can imagine ethically. Yeah, yeah. It will be, yeah, yeah, it's, yeah. It's very hard with customers like that. I think empathy goes a long way.

53:24 Yeah, it's. It is a hard one. I think if you, I certainly, you know, when, when people contact me and they say, you know, I really, you know, I don't mind them being in the garden, but they're in the hat, you know, and all that. You know, I don't like them being in the shed or in the garden or, or what have you. But I don't want to kill them. And it's like, well, that's what I do like in term, you know, if we can proof them out, let's proof them out first and then we can trap and then if we need to, we'll do rid and sides.

53:56 But the kindest thing that we can do is to is to trap them and remove them. And I, I go quite, you know, I tell them I don't do it for fun. I don't do this job for fun. I do it for public health. And I think, yeah, that's exactly what it is. Good night, John. Take care. You don't want. Enough. All of them. No, no, please. Don't, no. Two and I'll stay in two months. I've got to get some, I've got to get some metatracts out in me. He's told me I have and I'll lose loads of weight. I hope he's not got any more little, he says he has little jobs on.

54:35 I'm just doing a little job and I trust him ever that he's doing a little job because he can't sit still so. Go and rest. Please. Good night. John. Good night, John. Thanks for popping in. Now, mate, I appreciate it. Yeah. OK, but. Yeah, You know, we do a lot more proofing now. We actually, when we're doing the job, we go round and offer them, we say to them you can either do this or we can do it. And recently a lot of people have been taking us up on it. But I never. Guarantee that a rat will never get in again.

55:08 I say these are what's it called, avenues. You know, we can see a little, but I can't. You never want to guarantee that you'll never get an issue again because you. Can though, Can you? Because they could come through the. Drains, couldn't they? Yeah, exactly. I don't think you can ever guarantee it, but it's the way I. Word it. I always word it so it doesn't sound like it's, you know, this is the main option. But recently, after a big uptake on people actually saying yes to the quote, I've told people that you can do this yourself if you want to as well.

55:43 Yeah. I really see a lot of. People. I'm apprehensive to do that kind of work just because I I'm not a builder. I mean I can do certain types of briefing. All I mean is I. Mean vent. I mean, vent covers and yeah, sure. Like little things like that I would, but lots of stuff, yeah, as. For the the biggest stuff, I don't. I don't do the biggest stuff, no. No, I don't either. No, I don't. I wouldn't want to damage someone's house. I mean, it's certainly something. If there was a course out there that did like more in depth proofing, then maybe I'd be inclined to do it just so I could learn it and maybe do it myself.

56:26 But yeah, I've not. I've not. Seen any any courses actually on proofing? Bird proofing, yes, Yeah. Not on actual. General proofing. I've never seen it, but you know where they actually teach you how to do this? Yeah. I think I've done. I've listened to the bank. Cover is easy to pull. Yeah, downpipe is easy. I think I've done a, I've listened to a webinar back in the day and someone said about it's good to go on like a, a general sort of DIY course, but I've never been able to find one that might sort of cover that sort of thing.

57:04 It's getting dark now, isn't it? She's probably put the light on. Slightly, but yeah, it's been a lot of people in chat. You know, you've brought, you've brought. The people have. I It's been a constant saying it's been a. Constant 7 to 10 people. Oh, nice. I've, I've practically, you know, stole most of the messages. Yeah, this is one of John's early ones. Maybe you can buy a couple of bendy continents. He sold it. It has gone recently, isn't it? Has it? Didn't you see his Facebook? Post. I don't do social media at all, Yeah.

57:49 Forgot no. LinkedIn. I do a bit of LinkedIn and even then it's like I might drop in now and again, but no, it's a bit loud for me. No it. Is that's where all the it's. A bit loud. Yeah, I just. Yeah, it's. Addictive too. Yeah, it's a good way of shutting down I think from a day. Just do a bit of doom scrolling or or what? Have you careful then If you're on TikTok, it's three hours later. Is it? Well, I don't anymore but it can be. Are you still using? IT for business. I need to do more content on it, but I still.

58:30 I still do it, yeah, but I need to make more videos of me talking because them videos kind of work better, I think. What like these little. Snippets of like podcasts and things like that. And to be honest, I've got hundreds of clips I could put on socials already. It's more. Than me, I mean, to do it, I was going to have it where I was going to have two or three clips a day on socials, yeah. Then you've got to schedule it all. And I, yeah. Yeah, it could the. Podcast could be bigger, but it's it's time you see there are things that.

59:06 Do it there, isn't there? Oh, there is. But it all costs, doesn't it? It's all platforms. Isn't there? It all costs though, doesn't it? It's not shaped, Yeah. No, it's not for this. I pay for Steam Yard and then I pay for Canvas Professional I. Like camera? Yeah, we do a compressed control. Content on it and my wife makes thumbnails. But you ever see a thumbnail? They're not all. If it doesn't look amazing, it's if he looks crap, it's me. It's done. It it's not she. Has she's made most of the Mason?

59:40 Yeah.

59:43 Is there anything else you wanted to mention? I don't think so. I'm not really sure. Is there anything you wanted to ask? No, I think I. Think we've pretty much covered it, yeah. No, see, it's it flowed well, it did. I can't. Believe it's been an hour, I suspected. Hoodie on. I love it, it's great. All done. Pestex. I was thinking loads of people will come up to me, I won't do where I was. I had probably. 3 or 4 people and I I thought a lot of the Pestex is different. A lot of it's like a lot of bigger firms and stuff it's.

1:00:27 Yeah, I remember the first. Time. But there was some small. One man, 2 man bands, yeah. But. MPTI know I'm a board director, but I got no, it's no end of that. Pestech. I thought I'm going to get swamped again. I didn't.

1:00:46 It don't matter. Loads of people listen to the podcast. I don't do it for that. I do it to help people in industry. Yeah. I think that's why I do the articles and stuff as well. It's just little, I think it's just little bits, kind of humanises it I guess in a way. You know, we're not just going out and about and doing our thing. It's, you know, like I said before, there's so much more to being a pest controller than just going out and doing our job. It's so much more nuanced than that. Oh, it is.

1:01:17 It's like we kind of spoke at Pestex, but not for long. Yeah, to happen, didn't it? Because it's so busy. It does. That Birch. Meyer thing's called that Birch Meyer. Did you see it? The Birch Meyer pump? Yeah, well, that's caused no end of issues as hasn't it, The. The price he. Told me understand was 180 all in right? How much is that? It was. It was. We bought Jason bought 1 and he's returned it since and he bought the base model which he said it came for everything and that was like 200 lbs something.

1:02:01 Really. And now though. I mean, they rang me back saying I wanted to know how much one was, but I think it's come in at 340 LB now. I don't know if that's plus fat or not, but yeah, there's been a lot of confusion on what the price is for it. Yeah. I still need to I. Still need to find out if that's possible or yeah, that that price might be wrong. I don't know. There's something I don't think we're going. On somewhere, Yeah, I don't think you. Had it right before they advertised it. Yeah, but it does look a.

1:02:35 Good bit of kit though, to be fair. Yeah, easy. Wouldn't have to. Keep pumping up. If you leave it because it's got holds its charge, you turn it off and turn it on and you wouldn't need to pump it up. Oh, that's really. Cool. And you're going. Through it says sometimes you have to walk through people's houses, don't you? Yeah, I. Haven't. Got. I haven't got sodas, Yeah. Well, that would be great. Yeah, that would, but. But that that was the best thing I've found at that show. But when I let, when I know how much it is, I'll let you know.

1:03:07 I'll let you know how much it will be. Yeah, I do. I've still got the I've still got like I think it might be my mother in law's even it's you know, we've still got it and the Lance is still going. Although I struggle with the Lancers, I find them quite difficult to control sometimes. But to be fair, and I'll be honest, I don't enjoy doing wasp nest at all at all. It's just, yeah, it's not my favourite thing to do. I don't mind it, I might say it's one of my favourite jobs, but yeah, is it? Yeah.

1:03:41 He's got a question for you. Yeah. How are you? Advertising yourself, Hannah.

1:03:48 I so I'm on Google. I managed to get on Google Business after a while because it's quite limited now. Then no. Oh no, sorry Google. Business, I pointed. Google. Yeah. Yeah, I like find my business. So what I'm finding is what I'm finding is where I live, a lot of people actually really want are like hyper local businesses. So I've managed to put myself on the map and also word of mouth, I would say a lot of my customers now know someone who needs someone. And so my name kind of gets like bounced around quite a lot in terms of yeah, my friend, you know, I've had aunties say that they're, you know, like they're their nieces and nephews have have said for me to, you know, have recommended me.

1:04:45 So yeah. And when I do go to people and they have found me on on Google, they always say, you know, oh, we've looked through reams and reams of other. I know I'm not very high up the list, but they've looked at reams of other plus controllers and they click on them and they look like that they're from the area. But then you go on them and they're like an O 800 number and it turns out they're like a franchise or they advertise that they're in the area, but they're actually like in Northampton, which is like an hour and a half away.

1:05:14 Or I think people are getting wise to the larger companies, certainly like the franchise companies as well. I get hit by them. Because I'm called the pest control, the lights are able they actually put, they actually advertise their name and say they are open pest control on the app. Do they really? I'm not doing. That because they haven't said they're open pest control limited but able do. Oh yeah, but still, that's the Express. Doing, yeah, but. A. Lot of people are getting wise to it. They are and.

1:05:47 I think also, you know, I've been into jobs and I'm not joking. I have been into a job before where the pest technician of a larger company, I, I couldn't tell you which one it was, had left and then the landlord called me and said I do not like what this pest controller has done. Can you please come out? I want a second opinion. And I've been with them within the hour and I've had a lot of people have been stung by larger pest control companies that have gone in on the work and just left bait and not gone back and picked it up.

1:06:24 There's nothing on the box to say what it is. The one I said about just now where they asked me to go in literally an hour after that other pest control had gone in. The customer had seen rats in the kitchen, seen them with their eyes. You could see the paw prints where they'd like come through the wall and they'd put a mouse box down with Rude and deciding for a rat that was. Very strange and I was like. And yeah, again, there was nothing on the box to say what it was, so I couldn't tell you what it was in there.

1:07:00 I put a trap up because it was clearly 1 and I caught it the next day.

1:07:07 You know what a lot of them do like, don't you? And they put these mouse boxes down, Customer doesn't realise it, but they've sold the customer the box for the bait in it, yeah. They don't of the. Customers don't often realise that they've actually bought it and you'll find a lot of it. I'm not saying I'm not going to say a particular brand, but there is a particular company that sells stuff in the shops but when they do domestic jobs, they just give them the domestic version of the box. My issue with.

1:07:36 This is my issue with this is sorry, I've just cut you off, but is, and I've had this question as well. Is someone asked me, so how does the public get rid of that? Because as a pest control, I have to like sign it off and it has to be sent away somewhere special. So how does a customer who's left with redundicide that's not been eaten and the cost and the company is charging them to come out and get it another an additional fee, How does our customer get rid of that safely?

1:08:12 I actually know. That question. I'd imagine most of them would just Chuck it in the bed normally. I know. I know, but I don't know. I don't know the real answer to that one. It's something that. Another lady asked me and I said to be honest with you, I mean.

1:08:27 If it was a pest controller, you actually know you can recycle the bait, you can use it elsewhere. Yeah, different. Jobs if it's not. Too. Absolutely. Yeah, I do recycle a. Lot of my stuff I do as well. I don't. I have very minimal wasted but but yeah. You've got me there because I can't answer that one if anyone can. Answer that I'd love to know the answer just because you know, out of interest, it's you know how how I think some. Of them, they're not selling, they don't realise. I think some of the big, big ones, they're selling them actually over the counter bait in the boxes.

1:09:04 They just don't, they don't realise it.

1:09:08 But the amateur, some of it's amateur, amateur bait. I'm not saying it is, but that's what I think some of them do. The big, big, big. Ones not mentioning any names. Though you could probably work it out, yeah. But. But yeah, oh, Jackie, you also get oh right. He also gets it too with our company able do it to her as well. Yeah, how? Do they got got? Massive variants. Oaken Pest Control, Oaken Pest Control guaranteed results. They've got like 6 to 8 different variants of it. They do stop it sometimes and they start it again.

1:09:46 I've actually rang them before to ask them where Paul is. I don't know who's Paul? What? He's owner, Oaken Pest. Oh, we're not. And the minute they realise, they go. We're not open pest control, but we're national advertising. They don't. They don't see that's so. Ticky, isn't it? Yes. But we're still getting enough work. We do. Yeah, I was going to. Say they must do. Is it correct? If they need to do that, I do put. Posts that every so often and say if you ever bring open pest control and it sounds like we're in national call centre it's not us always ask for Sean or poor mother there's no.

1:10:21 One else in the firm. That will confirm that it is us. We have a van with a big friendly cartoon wasp on it. Yeah, we do. Yeah, Jackie agrees with you too. The general public buying over the counter are allowed to Chuck it in the bin. Oh, OK, I don't. Know if you're allowed. To I suppose if you were to read into the rule book, they probably ain't, but most people, they don't read the back of the packet. I imagine it may be on the packet. It might be OH. No. But as we know, they don't. A lot of them don't read the label.

1:10:57 Oh no. Like I. Say I've had people 100 grand bags or whatever and just sprinkling like the tiniest little bit and expecting it to do the job. I'm like, no, you're just really saying. You need, I said if you're going to do that, you need like bags and bags and bags and bags. That's what I said. Yeah, you need to keep it. That's if you eat it, yeah. Exactly. They might have had a little and that's the other thing as well, you know, you teach the customer if they if you don't put enough down and they don't eat enough, you're just going to make them poorly and they won't, you know, plus we have a lot of existence here, so you know, but.

1:11:36 Yeah. Tell you what, it's been a really fun conversation. Yeah. Yeah, I. Think we could for most things. We've got the world to rise, didn't we? Yeah, we weren't we? Weren't. Controversial. We're just saying. What the vast majority of people say about bait, you know, yeah, when it comes to the public, we all kind of have the same view. But yeah, it's been a good conversation. It has been a good. Conversation Have you got any last? Thoughts for people on anything if you want to say anything. I would say in terms of like the women in pest control committee, we're always, you know, if, if you want to join, if you've got anything you want to ask.

1:12:21 Yeah, if. Anything, you know, we're totally approachable. So, you know, we want to try and make it just as easy for women to get into the industry as possible. And I think the main thing of that is to be representing them in a way that, you know, shows the career, shows it as a really good job. Like I say, it works around my family incredibly well. If I need to do a bit of work in the evenings, I can do it's, you know, it's yeah, I can't champion it enough as a career for everyone, really. But you know, there's just such a small amount of us that, you know, we don't exist if we're not seen.

1:13:01 So someone, you know, we need to be seen to, you know, you get what I'm saying? I mean in. General, I will say that there is a big stigma in the industry. I'm not on about women. I'm on about, let's just say old fashioned attitudes from a lot of older men within the industry. Yeah. Then I wish it would go away and I think it's getting better. But there is a lot of, you know what I mean, old mentalities. Yeah, women pest controllers can be the same or if not better sometimes There's no, there shouldn't be any divide.

1:13:39 But I've heard things before in the past and anyone is, is not to think it does not make you better a pest control than being a man or a woman. You can be equal, you can be better than one another. It doesn't matter. You shouldn't be brought down to if you're a man or a big man or a woman. No, absolutely. Not you can. Be a pest control if you've got the passion they want to do it. Yeah, it shouldn't. Matter. It's not exactly a bit, I mean, I know you have to use a little bit of strength, but it's not always the biggest, most physical job because not all, I mean, yes, there is loft spaces, etcetera.

1:14:17 But equally, because obviously I'm, I'm bigger, but I would say if you were a lady and you were smaller, that would be a benefit that would yeah, it. Is I was going to say, you know, not everyone can get up in a loft hatch. There is some loft. Hatches. Well, I literally can only put my head through it. Yeah. Oh no, I get right in there. You don't have houses where the builders have been lazy and they've not cut them right Them. Yeah, yeah. Well, I go up into Thatcher's quite often, like thatched roofs.

1:14:49 So they're all like really low and cobwebby and the holes are like tiny. But I, you know, I can get in there, you know? Benefit Jackie's saying I wish the women in pest control had been around when I started. It's a good thing for the up and coming ladies, I think. Thank. You, Jackie.

1:15:10 Yeah, I talked to Jackie as well. Not yet matter. Hopefully meet her at some point. Yeah.

1:15:18 No, I hope I. Hope that we can do good things. You know, as I say, it's it's more as like a point of contact, I think at this stage. So yeah, that's a good thing for this. Yeah, at some point when you're all ready, when you're ready, when you've got some not the mic people, you'd have some of the committee members on with Jasmine to have a chat about anything that's going on. It's a goal of mine, but I've obviously got to wait till you're more established and you've got a lot going on because it's these committees are hard to.

1:15:54 It takes time for things to get off the ground, basically. Yeah, it. Does it does. And I can say we, each of us is bringing things that we that are important to us to it. And so, you know, it's working with everyone as a group to get those ideas off the ground. And yeah. It's been a good conversation, so yeah, it. Has get a lot of good. Feedback off of this? I'm sure we will. I'm sure I always do. Do you? You might have an input. Some messages soon about the about the women in pest control. You never know.

1:16:29 Well, yeah, I. Mean search me off. But you know, if you've got any questions or anything, then yeah, take me open to it. LinkedIn. Tell them LinkedIn. Yeah, LinkedIn. You can find me on LinkedIn. Did you want to, I don't know. I mean, do you want to promote yourself or anything? I suppose there's not really. There's not a lot to promote. To be honest, I think really, yeah. I mean, I'm just a pest control are like everyone else, probably a majority of the people that are listening to this. I think, yeah, it's more, I think more for the women in pest control committee.

1:17:11 I think if we can get more people sort of involved in that or just like I said, feedback if you've got any questions or anything or if there are women out there that want to become pest controllers, totally happy to have them come out with me if you need, you know, signposting to things like workwear and stuff like that because I can. I find workwear really hard. Good fitting workwear is quite hard for me. That's kind of a personal fashion project of mine. As I said, I'm only 5 foot 1. So for me PPE and workwear is quite hard to find that fits and say you know bad fitting PPE isn't safe so I miss.

1:17:54 Though most workwear to be honest, is made with with men in mind. Isn't it the body? It is? There are there are companies out there and there are suppliers out there. I would say probably the immediate suppliers that we have in the industry don't openly like in their catalogues and stuff, don't have women's sizes and things. So I've gone to a company and bought boot covers before, but I've had to then phone them and contact them separately in my own time to order those and for them to come separately from my order because they don't they can get them, but they come in and it's just sort of small barriers like that, you know, glove sizes, for example, I've only got small hands.

1:18:35 So it's having to find somewhere and usually you have to call and it's just it's they're small barriers, but we can get over them. As I say, I'm like I say it's a personal project of pattern project of mine with workwear and safety wear. And there is a big push in the construction industry at the minute with women and there's actually about the correct fitting PPE and workwear. Again, it's not safe if it doesn't fit. So put in a woman in a men's large high vis jacket or coat or T-shirt or trousers where they're they're.

1:19:14 Baggy. And they can get caught and they're, it's dangerous. Boots that don't fit properly, gloves that don't fit properly, too big, they're going to get snagged. And, you know, but there's, we saw on LinkedIn before I came on, actually, there is a PPE campaign going through Parliament at the moment through one of, I think it's through one of the unions about, you know, making sure that, you know, legally it should all be supplied. But yeah, that's just a big thing for me. I don't. Know it's it's good to hear it's safety.

1:19:54 In a minute, campaign up. There isn't it? Yeah, it's health and. Safety. At the end of the day, it is. Definitely. So, yeah. So thanks for coming home. You're welcome everyone. For watching. Yeah, thank. You you'll be on. Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Oh wow.

1:20:14 Listen to myself tomorrow. Exactly how? Hang on, we'll just end the podcast. But everyone, if you could like share and subscribe. And if you're on Spotify, everyone, I know a lot of you watch at least 80 odds. If you watch on Spotify and I'm pressing the follow button. If you could press the little star button, give me a review, it'd be great. And on Apple Podcasts, But one review on Apple Podcasts and then a lot of you listen. Just drop us a review. If I can read it on Apple, I will. Message me and I'll read it.

1:20:51 I will. Yeah, I will. But a lot of people, the reviews help it and more people see it. Yeah, if you could help by doing that or drop in a comment on whatever platform you're watching on, that'd be a great help. But anyway, thank you everyone and I'll see you next week. All right, and thanks everyone and thanks, Hannah. Thank you.