Who takes part in Episode 55?

Host Shaun Muller is joined by Jason McPhie and Matt O’Donnell.

What is the episode about?

It discusses sales, council funding and pricing, and pressures on the UK pest control industry.

What council treatment price is mentioned?

Three visits for around £93 in some areas.

Pest Control Sales & Industry Pressure

Hello and welcome to Pest Perspectives episode 57. I've been on the screen for a long time tonight. Never done this before. So I kind of think I know what these people that work for my own feel like, but I don't mind. It's all pest control talk and and news etcetera on what's going on in the industry on this. All sorts of chats have been involved in today and today we have like I wanted to do a round table and I experimented last time with Kieran Bews and Sam Tricky and it went down very well and we're with people listening etcetera.

So here's another one for for everyone watching, I'm joined by Jason from Ask Pest Control. How are you doing, Jason? Yeah, good, good mate. Good. Tired but good. They don't know Jason is the man that makes the down hype. Block blockers. Pipe guard. Yeah, Chad's pipe guard, rap blockers. Yeah. That's it. Chad's pipe guard blockers and we also have from closer, closer to me, Matt O'Donnell from IX5 Environmental Services Limited. I've got one there.

Good evening, thanks for having me on again. Are you? Are you good? I'm very good, thank you. Yeah, not bad at all. You drove through mine. Mine that could have was recently. Yeah, we've been up your way a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Get out. Get. Out of our territory. I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm kidding, you know? But today we've got a little bit of a chat about something Matt messaged me with about he's got a friend, a pest controller who, and with this experience, we've also got somebody who used to work for the council a long time, Jason, so he can offer insights on what it's like to work for the pest council, etcetera.

So basically Jason's Matt's friend who runs a business, is competing with the council and three visits for 93 lbs. Good luck. Yeah, yeah. Well, when we did it, it was a free service. Oh. It's free. Oh, OK. Me and the other two pesties were Christ domestic properties. We do 3 1/2 thousand a year. That's a lot is. It is it? I don't know. Is that a lot? Is it? Yeah, yeah. Oh, wait, it's free. Then it went down to two of us because I want one of the lads actually retired and went to look after his wife and then they started charging but that's when they got rid of the other bloke.

OK. So the charge was £40 for three visits and if you're on benefits it was £20 for three visits, Which I tried to tell them to start with. I said you've got no chance of making money at that. But like you say, we were subsidised by the local authority and I think they just wanted to make a little bit of money back and they didn't really make any of it. So I think I did that forum for about, I think it was about six or seven years. Let me ass off forum. And that's on top of wasp nests as well. They were charging £45 to do wasp nests.

You get the local people ringing you up like you have big small holdings and they expect you to come out £40 to get rid of the rats and small holdings. And you try and explain to them what, what they got to do, not to, not to keep on getting a save for £40, but they will go in, well, it's £40. What's forty? What's £40 to have you out three times. And we get the little bit of paperwork you write out. And if anyone come around, they could just show that. And that was at the end of it, at the end before they may be returned.

I I got to dislike pest control because they wanted more and more. How is it? How is it? Yeah, it felt graded to be quite honest, because you're doing all the work, the paperwork. You'd have to go and see the health and safety blog for the cost reports and everything and get them sorted, fill out all the paperwork for the because we were with the BPCA, Then for the BPCA, because we have to be audited, we have to look after the store room. I have to look after the stock. I have to make stock reports and when you've got to make 3 stock reports out you.

When we did it, I used to have to keep one in the stock room, one in my office and one in the manager's office. So if the building went on fire, they always had a form there and then exactly the same. And then we had to you had to keep everything within scope. They call it within scope. So you could only have so much rodenticide, so much insecticide. And because we were linked with the gardeners, they are there like weed killers and all that as well, all plumped into this one scope. And we have to do everything by kilos, even even liquids you have.

So you have to, you can only have so many kilos of this, so many kilos of that, just to keep them under the threshold for the next licence or if they went over, it'd cost them a fortune. So, yeah, so it got really degrading at the end of it.

But when I got made redundant, it was the best thing that ever happened. I did it myself. You do your own time, you're not running about. You take your jobs, you want to take. If you don't want to take the job, you don't take the jobs. But then I missed the environmental health part of it as well because I had some cracking environmental health blogs that I used to work with. They were absolutely brilliant. They took no BS off anybody. They've gone and kicked doors in, they've kicked fences in when it got warrants.

And it was absolutely, that was, that was a fun time of it and that was the best part of it. Can I ask Jason how obviously when you're, you're charging, I don't know, £40 a visit, £40 for three visits, whatever it is? Yeah. What were you getting time to go in and actually do root cause with RAT infestations and things like that? Or were you going in literally putting bait down, solving well, putting a sticking plaster over the problem? Yeah, that, that was it, putting a sticking plaster over the problem.

But I worked with two fantastic lads, old lads who'd been in it for years. 1 was an old fashion no nonsense. He'd walk into an house, if it was a bit of a mess, he'd tell them it was a mess, tell them to tie themselves up a bit and go, you're just wasting my time and he'd walk back out again. The other one was quite methodical in what he did. And I used to, like his name was Steve Smith. He passed away a couple of years ago. But he was quite methodical in what he did and, and that drove me towards him.

So when I was doing it by myself, I could give people advice like get your drains checked. And if we don't do it, the council wouldn't do that. They wouldn't give me the time to get to get a drain camera. They wouldn't pay for a drain camera. And you could say, right, yeah, we could lift the manhole to see what was there, but we couldn't actually see what was up there. So if you see soil in it or debris or insulation, you go quickly. Yeah, you need to get your manhole checked, but when they're only paying £40 a visit, £40 for three visits or £20 for three visits, they're not going to be bothered.

Oh well, Jason, you could have chucked the drain survey for that as well. Come on. I know, I know, I know, I know. We did. We did. We did one property and it was a renowned she had, she had 20-30 dogs, she was a breeder and the rats literally where you open the cupboard up and the rats would just run, you'd see the rats running up into the walls literally. And all we could do there was Chuck bake down and she wouldn't take no advice office, nothing until I got the environmental health involved. The best environmental health bloke ever worked with was Simon Dodds.

It was a big 6 foot 4, very intimate, intimidating bloke and I told him, I said we're chucking 50 quids worth of bait on every visit just to control the rats at this time and she's doing nothing about it. So he said to me one day, he said Jason, give me the time and the date you're going down there. He said I'll be there mate. And when he, when I turned up, we used to have to before we went in the house, we sprayed everywhere. We used to make it the last job of the day, sprayed everywhere with flea spray, shoes, everything because it was oh man, you come out, you come out itching like this and all that.

We used to have to wear masks going through the door because it stunk. And when she opened the door my mate just leaned over and went there you go. You've got 14 days to get your property up to a thingy. Where else? We're taking you to court. And she had to take out, I think it was a 35 or 45,000 LB long to get her house up to, to regs. And even even the electricians didn't want to open the loft because they said they saw the rats running. They took the back panel off and the rats just went everywhere.

So they did all the wiring externally on the walls and just put trunk in down the walls.

Nice. Yeah. Well, yeah, them kind of things. But yeah, we, we, we had a good, good, good laugh on me for the environmental. Health, yeah, just I haven't had a lot of time this week but I was just having a look around at some of the local authorities and what they charge, what they don't charge. Just for example, in in West Northants Council, as Sean mentioned, rats and mice, 3 visits for £93.50. They've got insects so they'll treat insects at £93.50 wasp £93.50 call out or advisory visit 44 quid.

Rugby Borough Council What do we got £65.80 for three visits for rats, Mice is £113.40 for three visits, cockroaches 100 and 5250 for three visits. What's £96.10 for two visits for What's Nest? Two OK. And then straying into Sean's territory or up near Sean Hinckley and Bosworth. I know it's other side of Leicester to you but rats £20. Oh, for God's sake, it got. Worse, say, how many visits? You might as well just say 3. You know, yeah, yeah. Well, we'll come to that in a minute. Oh, OK. Mice £63.04 so I don't know why the discrepancy between rats and mice, but hey again, insects 63 pound 04 and they do concessions as well.

So rats are free. If you're on housing benefit or council tax support. Mice are half price £31.52. But then going to Leicester City Council on your doorstep there Sean, rats free. No. Cockroaches or mice, £65 for two visits, Wasps I think, I think £75 there. It's a whole whole, the whole range of different prices from free to to very low value. And I under, I do understand there is the council's local authorities do have a public health remit in this, don't they? Well, well, they the council's only have to provide it comes on the prevention damage by Pest Act, best act ever.

Chuck that about everywhere just gets everything done. They only have to be deemed to be doing something on council land. So they don't have to do if they if we haven't got no council houses up here, they're all housing associations or anything like that. But the council, because they still employ me to do council land. OK. Open spaces and council land, but they, they haven't got a, a requirement to do people's premises.

So why the councils do it, I do not know. We're especially on stupid budgets like that because they, if you've got 3 or 4 pesties, especially in big cities like like you've got up there, they've got to be doing a hell of a lot of running about. And that's where the council pesties get the bad reputation. I think it's not because they're bad pest controllers, because they're not. They're the resource. It's, yeah, it's what they can do in the amount of time they'll be given. It does sound it, it, it sounds very much like to me, obviously from a different point of view, working for the council, it sounds like working for a big national company running around all day.

It does sound that way. We don't get given enough time, it does. Yeah, you've got to, you've got to get the jobs in. You've got to. I was doing quiet day, could be four or five jobs revisit. So that would be a nice day for me, nice early day, get back in the office, do some paperwork or I could do 16 jobs a day. Yeah. And it's when you've got you. You think they all have Telfed and wreaking area is quite big anyhow, it's a lot of travelling about just to get just to get the jobs done. But like I say with the housing associations, what they do up here is they call a private pet.

They say if you've got a pest control problem, call a private pest controller out to find out what the sort where the source of the problem is or anything like that. And if there's any work that needs to be doing to the property, they will actually do that. Let's let's explore a little bit deeper on that because as of October this year, according I don't know much about it. I've read, I know I couldn't do PPC magazine, BPC as mag very good. It is on. I might not be saying this name right, but under Arab's law, they're supposed to as of October 2026.

I don't know how bad the infestation has to be or the the terms etcetera, but they have to act on a mice and rat infestation. Now I don't know what that means. Does that mean historic bad? I mean, I've seen a few rats in my garden. I don't know what that means, but it it's coming into into foot into into that law. But. I don't. Is that for landlords and everything as well? No, Arab's law only covers social housing, I believe, As far as I know, Arab's law. Is that correct? Matt, do you know, is it just social housing?

I think it is. At the moment, I'll be honest, I'm not totally up to speed with it. I think it is, it's part of the, is it Social Housing Act 2023, I think, and I think there are other changes coming in, aren't there, coming in, in different phases. Yeah, I don't know how what defines you can get them out a council out for I don't know. I don't know what the definition of I've got Matt Ratz is. Is it? I've seen one in my garden. I can hear some people often they have to act. I don't I don't know really.

I've just I've just seen it appear because I had it. I I I do live in a house where you deem it social out. Not not it's out. Nothing wrong with it. And when they do your boiler cheques right, it's actually they must be paying them. But they actually go round and see if you've got any mould and take a photograph. Within a couple of days I had a phone call. You've got moulding? Yes as well. I'll do it myself. Oh well, the technician's seen it. Oh, OK, come round and do it then. But all he did was put warm paint on it.

He just painted it. But the bloke said to me he, he was loving it. He says I'm on double time at the weekend. I've signed up for the overtime because you have to react really fast. Oh he, he was loving it. He was, you know, I bet. He was, but he. Yeah, I haven't I. Haven't got see more, more. The point was that Matt, Matt was trying to get to as well when he spoke to me was we've obviously councils are now struggling financially. Most of them are is should they really be wasting money? Should they really be wasting money on on pest control?

Has they got other better things to spend it on or should it be means tested? I understand there is people that genuinely can't afford to hire a private pest controller. Is it? I don't know, I don't think they should. Rutland doesn't do it though. The day Rutland stopped doing it the guy was the dog warden, which he still have a dog warden I believe and he was the pest controller. The day he retired they shut the pest control department down. More work, yes. That's what it was like. That's what it was like years ago.

You showed the dog warden and pest control together. But they're right now. But then answers the question if Rutland does join Leicestershire as a unilateral counts. You'll get free rat treatment there. Yeah, I I hope not. I hope not, yeah. It is, it's a difficult 1, isn't it? Because the, the council's well under the Prevention of Damage by Pest Act, they have a statutory duty to keep their, their district free of rats and mice. Yeah, they, they don't have to deliver that service themselves. But at the same time, local authorities do have a remit in wider public health, both through environmental health and the public health teams that they have.

But there's a, there's a commercial decision for them to make. Isn't there a political decision for them to make? Because there it's obviously the elected politicians that should be making the decisions on will they choose to fund any, any particular services and how they fund those services apart from statutory services. And pest control is not a statutory service. No. So when they're failing very often in lots of authorities actually failing to deliver on their statutory services, there's an argument to say this should be pulling all discretionary services, funding for discretionary services to fund the the statutory services there absolutely required by law to provide and refer things like pest control to private pest controllers of which there are a huge number.

Yeah, yeah. And that's what they do with me now. Subcontract me out. They're saving a fortune, Yeah, they don't have to pay because when I work for the council I had 6 1/2 weeks a year holiday. This is it. They've got no way cost have they have. Employment, yeah, I had sick pay. I could, I could take six months off full pay if I wanted to, 12 months. The other six months I could take half pay. And then they pay into the pension scheme and everything like that and they haven't got no health safety to deal with or anything like that.

I probably should have declared my hand. I know Sean knows. I probably don't know whether you know Jason. My background is local authority as well. Yeah, I spent many years working in local authority environmental health. Yeah, so, so they, they, they save an absolute fortune. Yeah. On on pest control and me charging them whatever I charge them, it's like a drop in the ocean to what they were paying before. All the overheads from running that service within within the organisation have you van equipment training that's.

Right. Yeah, all of it, yeah. But it is, it's, yeah, it's an interesting one and just seeing how different local authorities deliver or don't like you say, some, some don't deliver that ServiceNow, some do, some subsidise it, some, some give discounts for if you're on housing benefits or whatever else is real dichotomy of, well, whole disparity of services across the country, all decided within the local authority. But yeah, it is when they're struggling for funding anyway, you think why are they still delivering discretionary services?

Why are they still funding them? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Any local authority pest controllers listening to see if they give out, what's their point of view and everything? Because I know everyone, everyone disses them and everyone and I know the majority of them are pretty nice blokes, pretty good blokes, pretty hard working and they just want to do the best they can. But most of the time, their hands are tied. Yeah, I would agree. And I think some of them, yeah, some of them are fantastic pest controllers, honestly.

Because there was one-on-one way on the beauties and beasties. I can't remember his name and he worked up near the chore Mooney where where he lives and that council, but they their pest control was very good. It's like they they actually tell the customer if it's a you don't work with us, you've got to clean your garden. You've got to do this. You've got and they also get drain cameras in and all sorts. They get the job done properly. But they said that. But then that's probably, that's probably one of the councils that really does do it well.

But as you say, Jason, it's not a technician's fault. Most of the time they're just being told what to do. You know you've got to get on to your next job. You know if you've got to go. You know, well, yeah, you're only paying £40 for three visits or whatever it is. You, you can't afford to hang around, can you? Do you? Do you think there's an issue as well with public perception where local authorities are delivering services at at no cost or very low cost the the public generally don't value those services then?

Yeah, yes. 100% yeah, yeah. And you'll always find it's this time of year, the middle of March, when the council have got to spend the money to get before you next year. I've seen it, I've seen it run by my house. All the paths are lovely and clean now. There's no grass on the thingy and they're all cut in. Lovely. They're spending that budget money in case a little. Budget money so they can get it for next year. Yeah, there are issues around that, aren't there? And going back to another way of doing that is 0 based budgeting, isn't it?

So each year you don't get match, fund, match funded to what you had the year before if you spent it, you have to justify what you need from scratch again next year. Yeah, I do believe that all these low funded services given by local authorities just not valued by the recipients of the service. No. It is true because it's like, it's like we obviously don't get it. We don't get people say that. But I have heard people say, well, if you go on Google, it says it should be 60 LB, should be 80 LB or whatever it is.

But I imagine if you, you know, the council does it, you Google it and they're using that price as, oh, this is what it should be like because there was 1 wasn't a council price, but there was one guy. We never did the job because generally with a customer, you can't tell if they're a little bit of a red flag. Keep asking you tonnes of questions and he booked you and he messaged you next day and cancel. But what he kept doing what? What have we put it to him was, oh, can't you cut it down a bit?

And that goes to him. Your boss rang up now for wherever you work and said to you, would you come in today and I'll pay you half, half your money? What would you do? Well, I won't go. That's what you're asking me to do. Fair enough. I understand. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. People try it, don't they? Well. Yeah, they are when they. Price Compare, you just say just go with the other person there. Just go with the other person and sometimes it's not even cheaper sometimes. But be careful because sometimes they're making it up as well because we had a customer, I won't mention the name, Massive National Company because Imagine told us that they could get them out for £50 all in.

But go ahead I'll if you can get them £50 all in, I'll subcontract them and they can do all my work. Well, they never rang, but then yeah, it's a lot of rubbish. Basically it was. Yeah. But. Interesting. Did you used to do Commercial Services well Jason into food businesses or? We had well because contractors I worked for the council for for 30 years and then they contracted it out. So tell TWS one tell free services FOSCA, FCC. So that's a big, big company in Texas as well. So we, we did the, we, we did the pest control through them, but my, my service council service actually carried on for 30 years.

So you were. Delivering out commercial, yeah, it came so didn't through businesses or whatever else. Only I only found out at the end on the last year that TWS shouldn't have been doing any commercial contracts because we were actually contracted to the council. Now the council don't do any commercial contracts, but we did do it through TWS and they weren't, they weren't food outlet businesses, schools, some, some schools and other little contracts around on, on business sites and all that. When I left they, they all, apart from one, all of them came over to me anyhow.

So I had a good start when I started my own business. But yeah, food premises, I don't do a lot of like I say. School, I know there are there are local authorities that are touting for commercial contracts aren't there in food businesses and other other settings. I know of a number of them that are. And you think, well, it's a real conflict of interest, isn't it? Because on one hand you've got your environmental health team going in carrying out food hygiene inspections. On the other hand, you've got your pest control team in some cases working with with these food businesses.

You think it's a real real dynamic, real conflict of interest? Yeah. I think that's why they didn't really want me doing them, and I didn't find that out until the last year of me working there. Yeah, it was a conflict of interest of anything, any businesses going about if they have to send the environmental healthy. Yeah, but again, there's another dichotomy in the the local authorities are using their publicly funded employees, publicly funded equipment, services, everything else to deliver into commercial sites to generate commercial revenue.

You think? Again, it's it's all very uncomfortable, isn't it? It is competing against local businesses. Yeah, you're. Using tax, you're using taxpayer money to subsidise the local authorities are selling as a commercial service. And it's like, would you as a if you were a council pest controller and say, I'm not saying they were doing a bad job. I'm just saying if they were eho comes in, would they would they do? Oh, would they do anything? Oh, well, you are the council like telling. That's like telling on your boss.

It depends on how good the EHO officer is because I know my mate Simon Dodds threatened to sue the council on land and property and that was a £15,000 fine because of a strip of land in between two houses. That was council but it was mounted up and full of rats. Now when she rung the planning department up, the woman who's complained the planning department denied that was council land. When I rung Simon Dodds up to ask for a survey of the site, he went, yeah, that's that's council land. He told the bloke planning, the bloke from planning rung me, gave me a bollocking saying I shouldn't have told him that was council land.

So I went back to Simon Dodds and said I've just had a bollocking off him. He said don't worry mate, I will get a written letter out to him and we'll take him to court on planning if he doesn't tidy the land up. But it's all, it's all paper money. So they find planning, they get money back from that, and it's just, yeah, it was. So I'm hazarding your guest here. Both of you guys are council taxpayers, aren't you? Yeah, I. Think we're all we're all council taxpayers. How do you feel individually about your council tax being used to fund commercial pest control services delivered by local authorities being sold on a commercial basis into businesses?

Because that's what's happening, isn't it? In some local authorities where they are selling out Commercial Services? They're not doing it at true commercial rates, are they? Very often they're using taxpayer money to subsidise. Money. They're doing it, yeah. And then you like say the EHO, you've got the conflict of interest of the EHO. Yeah. And they're going head to head with all three of us in our businesses and all the other pest control businesses out there using taxpayer money to subsidise what they're doing so they can do it cheaper.

Probably. So I'll be honest now because obviously we all know that not all, not all clients go for the cheapest, but. Oh no. There's no way you could beat council on a on a commercial contract. If it was down to price, you couldn't beat them. There's no way because it's subsidised. I don't believe it should be allowed. Subsidised by our money. Taxpayer money. Well, yeah, especially in Rutland when they charge you so much as well. But then again in Rutland we don't have pest control, but used to.

But still I still don't agree with it anywhere. But obviously when you say it's not means tested, I'd agree with that. But obviously if they were to means test it, they probably wouldn't need, they probably wouldn't need as many men as many people or whatever use they would. And I I think there is an argument for supporting people that genuinely cannot afford. Oh yeah, I agree with that. On public health grounds, if nothing else, or damaged property and other things, there is a there's a strong argument for that, isn't there?

Oh yeah, definitely yes. You've got somebody living in AI, don't know 1 two, £3,000,000 property that's getting. If they live in Leicester, they're getting RAT treatments for nothing. If you're living in rugby, they're getting it for £65.80 for three visits. Is that right and fair? No. And they've got no just say if they have a pen of chickens. Well, yeah, absolutely. You know what? Do you know what I won't? I won't mention the council, but I did a job where a gentleman had a fish pool, warm fish pool and there was chicken coop and I was asked to do a private survey for the client to give to the council.

Now all I can say is I found no evidence that they were living under his pool or anything. And there was there was holes and they were all going into the chicken coop and and to the other gardens. But the council person had already decided before I even give the report in that she was going to side with the person on the chicken coop. Kickings weren't the problem. The swim, the the fish pond was. And I couldn't believe that. I couldn't believe it because I looked, he told me the person's name. I looked up for the person's credentials.

Yeah. And she just literally done with them. Environmental courses you do at Open University or whatever, They're not really qualified on it, really. But I said, I said there's no what I can do. They are the council, I said, but I said generally it would be the chicken coop. But obviously I had to ask for support of the MPTA on how to word it because apparently you're not allowed to say it most definitely is that. You've got to say in high probability it could be the chicken coop and things like that because I didn't realise that you've got to use it in probabilities etcetera.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That comes under like Harb Bridge and Habitat. Harb Bridge is different to habitat. Yeah, yeah. But. The way we used to. Well, that's the way I still word it. Harbage, Harb Bridge, or. I know, I know. The ground garden habitat, Yeah. You don't know whether it's Harb Bridge unless you get in there. Well, exactly, I never got to see the chicken coots. I I was only looking at it out of window at the bedroom window wasn't allowed to go in and it wasn't allowed to picture or report on that.

But like S Katheven don't have pest control, but I believe that council subsidises it to a well known national company or they used to to pest express. I know that it's because when I've done pest control jobs in Stamford etcetera, I've seen old pest express boxes in lofts. That's. Called topless, isn't it? It's Pest Express. I don't know. Yeah. I don't think. I think so, yeah. Yeah. I don't know if they still do it or not, but they were, they were doing it. They were. But it's yeah, it's it's it's hard one because then the only way you could ever stop any of this is if you you managed to convince people in power and trade bodies, etcetera to get on board of it and local and MPs to all get on board.

It won't be I. Think that's, I think that's what we need to be doing really, isn't it? As a as a independent pest control businesses, we need to be speaking to the local politicians to have these conversations with them about why are they subsidising services that they don't need to be. Yeah, they're not statutory services. That's what they did in Telton Reading Council. That's why they gave it up. They. See. They knew they couldn't afford it at the end of the day, so they. Just gave it up. And then just subcontracts everything out.

They were the council, they've got finances and you can find out a lot of the finances etcetera, can't you? So you can get that evidence, say well they can't really afford to have it and you throw it at the MP, OK, well you really can't afford it. What are you doing? But then again, do we? Do we with the local local authority as there's still a lot of people, Pesties work for them. Would we want them to be made redundant? That's true, yeah. Oh, it's it's not about that is it's. About the morality of.

Morality. Public funding. Yeah, yeah. Service services, they probably don't need to be servicing when when there are lots of independence and and when lots of people can't afford to pay privately. Yeah, I think it's. It's like you said, it should be means tested if they live in a mansion. Absolutely. Pay £200 a visit or something like health pests. Yeah, absolutely. So anything that spreads disease or anything like that, Absolutely. Yeah. Provide that service for essentials. Yeah. So it is, it is a moral dilemma, isn't it?

Yeah, it's a tricky one, political one. Yeah, yeah. I don't think we'll have the answers to it. Well, you may have the answers, but nobody's going to listen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the the the membership bodies need to be looking at this as well, don't they? BPCA and MPC really and. They all watch this podcast, so you never know. There has been things happen when I've done podcasts and just have been made on stuff I'm not saying. Well, there has been certain topics I've covered in the past and suddenly they've appeared in articles on trade bodies and stuff.

So I do know that people from within these trade bodies said do listen to this podcast. And did you know that Kill Germ featured my my podcast in the, you know, the house 2 crew bought your podcast. It mentions in their PCM magazine. Last one that was out, I think on how to do your CE crew points. He mentioned the kill German podcast and everything then it said in it said also you can also get you you should be able to get points for beauties and beasties podcast and the pest perspectives podcast.

So I was like, I've made it into a magazine. I mean, I have been in a magazine before, but. You made it into a book as well as Sean, haven't you? Yeah, you. Gave it into a book as well. I've got that book now, Dan, Dan Trainer sent me it. I'm in the book. And also I'm in a book that's in America because last week's guest lived in America and he bought it because it he's published through Amazon, so they just print it. That would have been he probably would have printed what was printed in America and sent to him.

But yeah, I'm in the book there. But I would like to get in a magazine at some point for actually little article or something about pest perspective. So it would be nice. It would.

You never know. Absolutely, yeah. Right then, what else has been going on this week that we don't? Have what has been going on then you know. There's no we're, well, anybody off to Pest X? Any of you guys off to Pest X next week? No, I am. I'm not going to be able to make it this time. No. Where? Where's he at? London Down in London XL Arena No. No, keep away from there.

I've never been. So I'm going. I am. Matt here is subtly promoting his talk. If you you, he will promote his talk in a minute. He's talking at it. You are, ain't you? Well, I'm actually, yeah, I'm on an expert panel. They're talking about environmental health and pest control. How we we engage better with BH OS and things like that is. That is that based off that? There was an article recently that I read in the BPCA magazine and it was about eh OS tips on how to communicate better with your local EHO and things like that.

It was. The BBC have run a couple of articles along those lines, haven't they, about engaging with environmental health and, and things like that. And in fact, I'm, yeah, I'm due to write another couple of articles if yeah, possibly try and get them in there. But yeah, but yeah, I'm, I'm on an expert panel down at Pest X. So yeah, on the Wednesday morning. Wednesday What time is it? What time is this? Oh, I think it's 1130 something somewhere around there. Someone in the past, the best perspective body might might turn up, you never know.

Absolutely. I want to put them. I want to see what all these headphones are about. I do, because obviously at #mpta, we don't do that. But I, I want to see, I'll see all the people sitting there with headphones on. I want to see what it's like. I bet, I bet you can hear every word, can't you? There's no issues obviously it. Should be OK. Yeah. Sorry that they got music playing through them and they're ignoring your speakers all together. Exactly, and who's joking? Thanks. Thanks for popping in Terry and Hugh Radford.

I would slow. I'm probably saying it wrong. It was from earlier. It was. But no, I'll be there. I'll have a look around the show. I didn't get a chance to actually do anything at best tech because I was that busy helping. I think I only got to the Lodi and obviously the Rat Pack stand and I think the Wasp pole pro stand and that and that's it. But Pest Pest X, I'll be able to have a good look around. But they they have more for international audience, don't they as well like the people from abroad as well?

I've not. Been before I believe it's it's not not competition, but I think it's a lot bigger than Pest X from what Pest X from what I understand, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean it's obviously it's, it's a 2 day event. So yeah, it's the biggest event. But yeah, it's all different things, isn't it? It's it's, I obviously know how Pestitech operates. I've learned I'm on the I'm on the Pestitech committee of how organise it and we're actually starting to get things rolling with that. But that's a big operation.

So that must be even bigger to organise that because you've got, yeah, it's a lot on a on a bigger scale it. Is like you say, it's over 2 days as well, isn't it? It is. It is. It's a big it's. A big venue as well, isn't it? It's a big. Massive, isn't it? Yeah, Yeah. Is it what? Do you think that interested me? They've got digital cards. Yeah. Rather than rather than, I'll show you. Hold on, where's the wallet on there? I thought it were quite interesting. Where are we? Is this to get in? Yeah, yeah.

Look at this QR code. Of course. Hold on, I'll undo that thing. Visual effect, You probably can't see it still, but it's basically QR code. Sure. Yeah, it's basically a QR code with it on. And I thought that was a good idea. I imagine I, I imagine that when you go to each stand, they're they're they're obviously ask you to. What's it called? Yeah, if I can scan your ticket and imagine if you do that at Pestech. Yeah. Yeah, it's good to see you, John, at, at at the BPCA standard Pestech. I've I've visited a couple of times.

I will be at Pestech at Pest XI Will. But yeah, I think that ticket system is quite good. I'm sorry, I will let everyone know what I think of the show. Obviously, I can only comment on the Wednesday that I go. I will be there for the one day. Well, yeah, I'm just going for the Wednesday. Dad's dad's driving so. Yeah.

So I'll have to see what it's all about. I thought it would have been not your first time going, Matt. I wouldn't. No, no, I, I think it's the location that puts me off going, usually getting into London and whatever else. But no, I'm happy to go and happy to be part of it, really. He's staying down. There, stopping over the night, Matt stopping. Over for a couple of nights, yeah, yeah. And then making a bit of a day on the Friday, staying on the Wednesday night, Thursday night and then yeah, I mean a bit of a a day out in London on the Friday.

So. Oh, you might as well. Business. Yeah, you might as well. Might as well, yeah. Absolutely. Make the most of it, yeah? Do they have like AI? Don't know, I've never seen it advertised. You know how like Pestech they have a that's a big dinner the night of Pestech. Do they have anything for the big for the Pestex version? Is there like a big meal advertised? Or if they have, they haven't invited me. Oh, I didn't know if there was one. I've just. No, I've just. I don't. I don't think there is unless maybe the BPCA team do their own thing or I. Don't know if they have their own one because it's a lot of hard work to reward the people that have helped, you know, with a man absolutely drink.

I'm not saying they do or they don't, but you know. No, I didn't. I don't think there is in the same way that there is a pest X. And the MP one, yeah, because that's obviously ran by Kill Germ, that PCN and you have to pay per ticket and table and stuff. But that was quite interesting I did. You went to the meal? Yeah. I was on the MPTA table. First time I'd ever been. You're quite nice. Yeah. It was in Milton Keynes. Yes, yeah, yeah, it was. Just a it was good, yeah. So that for me is a lot easier to get to.

It's only, well, 20 minutes, half an hour away, yeah. An hour and a half for me, but I, I obviously went down on because I had a bit of you didn't the Jason as well. Yeah, yeah, we. Had a beer for Rat Pack. I was like, keep your drinks. Come in. Oh, Dave, Dave, Dave Ogerson. Good. That's good, yes. Best boxes as well. Aren't they rat pack ones? Well, Jason did a bit of a. Tentious subject. Did you Did you see Jason's picture he put up on one of the groups about stress testing at their brake? Yes, yeah, I vaguely remember it.

Yes. Yeah. Wasn't it a vehicle went over it or something? I think, I think he dropped a skip on it or something. So they're not skip proof. I I think I said they're not waggon driver proof. Yeah, that's fair. That is, that is, you know, but yeah, it's, well, they can write that, that it doesn't, it can't. That's a skip now. What else? You're going to test it on I.

Don't. Know drop test 10 Storey building or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah, was yeah. That was when I just walked up to that and the trap was everywhere. The box was in pieces. It's even because I anchor them to the wall. It's even they anchor out the wall. Trust above. What the bloody hell they done here? So that or a big rap was any any wanted to get it. Absolutely.

Sorry if you see me in my hoodie at Pastech, say hello because I won't know what you look like. I won't, but I suppose I've got loads of people say hello with my hoodie on. I've actually got someone. Someone actually. I can't say it's full, but someone ordered it. She won't. I've actually got one of these. Someone's having the paying me for it. Excellent. But yeah, it's so. You guys got any interesting jobs going on at the moment?

Not really. Just just the normal, just the normal. The moles are starting to come in mould jobs. The bumblebees are starting to come out. Yeah, I do. I do Bumblebee rehoming. Yeah, we do as well. Yeah, well, I love doing bumble bees. Yeah, brilliant, brilliant. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we, we do honey bees as well. In fact, we're starting to get inquiries already now, which is already yeah, yeah, well, got a few on the go at the moment. Not actual removals now usually we start around the 1st of April or weather dependent, but yeah, we're, we're doing a few surveys at the moment.

Got a few quotes out. So yeah. Say, Jason, that's exactly why he's in my area again. The bees, Yeah. Yeah, the bees. The bees. Yeah, I like, I like going to quote more and and getting my beekeeper to remove him. I just. Yeah. I just haven't got time to look after him or anything like that, so I just give him to my local beekeeper and he does all my work for me. Removes him. Does he? Yeah. You. Don't get involved at all. I go up and take a few pictures in me in me suit because I've got a lovely green wasp suit.

And I, I go, yeah, he's a lot smaller than me. And I bought this extra, extra extra large bee suit from China and it was absolutely good looking. Suit zips everywhere. Timu suit. Oh man when I put it on I look like a telly it will be. It was that fight so I gave it in because he was only 5 foot 2 and he loves. It, but at least you've got some use out of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Luckily it wasn't that expensive. But yeah, he's a good lad. He's you. You can, you can say, right. I'll get the scaffolding sorted.

I get my the scaffolding company I use to get it up and sorted and then he goes up and then like that if I get, if I get time in the in the day when he's there, I go up and just give him an hand a little bit. But he's he's got his wife there or his dad there helping him so. Does he do all the building work himself as well then? No, the I tell the customers they have to contract that out. If it's yeah, it's I have got a builder but I think he's knocking on now. But I have got a couple of couple of builders I could pass it on to this year which I which I and they are good lads.

That's the key, isn't it? People you can trust. But yeah, well they're old school mates who's good school with them and they know, they know the quality of work that I like to work with and they are, they are good lads.

But yeah, I don't try and do it climbing up ladders. I don't like doing that. Don't so much name. So when he's squirrel proofing, I'll give it, give it one of my mates and he goes off and does it. And yeah, and he does a good job because he's been doing proofing for years and he's, he's good at what he does. I don't mind proofing. It's like this week I've got a proof of garage door. Not this week, next week, but it's on a posh house so it's a double garage door and I've been scratching me brains to what to do to it and trying to think outside the box because they don't want that.

Is it up and over doors or is it? Yeah, electric, electric up and over, but they didn't want that grey rat. Is it rat X or rat X? Yeah, yeah. It don't match the door though, does it? It don't match the door. It's white, isn't it? Told me. Yeah, so I have I have got an idea of how to do it. If the rats chew through this, then all the mice with mainly mice field mice, if they chew through the stuff I'm going to put on there, they can have what's inside the garage because it's it's three mil, 3 mil thick steel, stainless steel.

But it's I've got to make it aesthetically look nice as well, if you know what I mean. Yeah. You can't be a challenge, can't it? In some places, yeah. You can't. And I didn't just want to go up and just spray the metal white because it it doesn't look nice. So I have thought of something else that I'm going to put on top of it that will make it look. Could you not get it? Could you not get the metal powder coated or something? Not in the time frame. And then again, if you chip the powder coat or anything like that, it's filling it in.

But I don't know that I have got something. In mind so. And you know the other option, Raise the level of the floor. I am joking. No, no, I have got a customer who needs to do that, Yeah. You do know that Rat Pack? I've got a powder, a powder coating company tell you that. Yeah. Yeah, they do that too. Rat Pack engineering. Yeah, moulding, injection moulding. They've got ACNC machine, they've got their own. One of the brothers does the powder coating for them. If you ever have a chance to go to Rat Pack, go to Rat Pack.

I did. I didn't go. I was doing the course. I would like to go up and have a look. I think I will at some point.

We we go up there when we take your hazardous waste back. Yeah, We just build up hazardous waste piles and then once we've got some fish and we'll take a trip up there. Yeah. Oh, it's. Good excuse to go up there. Really. Go. Up and see, Dave. Yeah, that's a lot. Of lunch on the way out as well. That's it, That's it. Question for you, Matt. Have you got any mole jobs? Mole jobs at the moment, yeah, I think we we've got a small number going on at the moment. We've had a few over the last last few weeks.

Why? That's a conspiracy, right? Right. Dayton's got them, you've got them. You have a, you have a round table. I have, Kieran's got them. Sam's got them. I haven't got any. Have you not? No, in fact the, in fact the lads in the office this morning, they're, they're having a competition over, they're mole catching skills now. So I find a prize for whoever's going to win that. Yeah, well, everyone's got mole jobs apart from me. Yeah. That's all the mole register, aren't you, Sean? I am, I am. Makes no difference, are there?

Anybody else on the register? Let's preface that the British Molecatchers register. Yeah, yeah. There's only one of a company within Rutland that is but E Grantham way. Then again, I am on the I am in less. I am on the list but Lincolnshire and the Corby and stuff. So in multiple areas but not getting the hits yet on the on the mole control. But they keep telling me they're they're coming. And I says, well, let's see. Well, last year I was. Do you enjoy mole jobs then? Yeah, right. I enjoy it when it goes well and I kill and I get and I get them.

I don't enjoy it when it's not going well. I don't. I think, and I've had this conversation with the guys at work, I think for all of us it's our least favourite type of pest control work, moles. I I loved it last year. I did. I did. I've never done it before. I called 2. I called 2 in one, Yeah. And then my dad was like, I've never done that before as well. I have now. I find it therapeutic. I do more on anything doing sitting there just digging the old dabbing for him and you could spend an hour just looking at the scenery because I don't.

I do domestic moles. I don't go on farms and do them. We don't. Let the big companies do domestic like big big housing. There you go. But I don't go in the fields and do it because that's that's a different, completely different game for moles. Leave it to the experts as. The only farm I do, I keep my bees on a local farm and I do a bit of mole work for him, but it's reciprocal for having the bees there anyway. Yeah. And that's, that's quite nice. Go walking around the fields, yeah. That's nice.

One thing I will say bringing it back to we were saying is it devaluing pest control, let's flip it and he said about mole control. So a lot of people actually know out there that is willing to do it for a few pound a mole or 20 lbs for the old job. Ten of a mole. Yeah, that devalues the traditional mole catching seriously devalues it. I had this, yeah, I had this conversation with because I do a lot of shooting, gamekeeping. I go down there, do a lot of night shooting and we have the lads come up the next morning with the dogs and they do a bit of bowling and they they asked me my price.

I went bloody. Yeah. I said yeah. I said what do you charge? And he told me. I said, well you're just undervaluing yourself. I said don't undervalue yourself. Even if you do it as a hobby, you don't need a licence to do it if you're doing it for the local people around your area. But if you're doing it as a business and you're undervaluing, if you're under selling your services, you're potentially giving up your time to do lower value work. Well, it's free. Why would you do that? You've only got a certain number of hours in the day, so why would you do some jobs at lower value than other ones?

Yeah, yeah. Because. It's, it comes down to the, oh, the old, old Bob Gregg used to do him for us and he'd come in and do him a favour and mole the. Old Village mole. Catcher. Yeah, you go and do a job and give him five and get him but. I say go and get him, go and get him. Yeah, but I don't think, I don't, I don't think people always have expensive pest control is now. No, Well, my answer to that when, when we get people saying, oh, we used to have old Joe doing it for £10 a mole or whatever it is.

So where is he now? Why aren't you using him now? Because he's gone out of business. Because he wasn't charging a sensible. Rate there is people do it for free, right? But you're fine. After so long, these people get bored and stop doing it. They do because they're just, there's a lot of retired people that in certain areas do it, you're fine. After so long they get bored and just pack it back it in. Yeah, it's like. I might start doing that when I retire. I might start doing that in Oakham. You can do mole control.

Yeah, yeah, it's like the lads. The weekend with the dogs, they're lovely family, lovely 33 lads come up and we go out ratting, smoking the holes out and they've got a couple of terriers there working like hell and they do it for nothing. They do it for nothing, just for so they can come and do a bit of beating on the on the land and and bit of shooting if they want to. But if you're doing it as a business, you need to be charging. Commercial, you've got to be charging, yeah. I think most work with dogs is is free any apart from a person's property if you're doing it on farmland or anything like that.

Unless you make a decent business out of it, most of them are free in here. I will preface it, you know, you know, Sam that comes on the the round table, the last round table dead Sam, Ricky, he uses his dog heavily with his farm work and it's a real asset to him. So he he does get through it, but he said it, he said it. He said now it'd be it'd be lost without it. It won't happen. His dogs with him because he said sometimes you just can't. He says, yeah, he uses traps, he uses everything. But he said sometimes you just can't get to them and the dog can.

He says it's not a thing that. It's enjoyable watching the dogs work as well. Yeah, it's like the weekend the rats were coming out everywhere and the dog would pick one rat, shake it then then they both run after this one rat in a film. You think, Christ, I'm knackered just watching you. I can never compete with that. I can never compete with that. Doesn't matter what anybody says. Especially coming up to game bird season now where you'll have hundreds of rats in the edge line soon as they start putting the.

Finger Oh that so that so that ex Sorry, but that explains it. Then I went to one of my contracts today and he's got them buckets everywhere. On the farm. Yes, everywhere. They should be empty at the moment so there shouldn't be that many rats around them. It's when they start filling them up. I didn't check if they were full or not because it was I thought, you know, you eat good like grain stores, you always get grain, don't you? And you always put. Make sure you clean it up. Yeah. Never happens, does it?

No, it doesn't happen. Yeah, it's especially around these oil. Oil containers, you know, the oil bins, they fill them up with seed. You can guarantee the rats that eat half of that seed before the birds do. I'll be honest. Yeah, yeah, they. Were small rats neither this this year they were quite big rats around there. I think the dogs only had one small rats. But but I'm sure we you kill a load in in the nest as well. So. So if there's any babies in the nest and you smoke in the nest, they're just killing them then babies off as well.

So yeah, it's they're good things. Dogs are to watch. Yeah, I enjoy watching them. Never. I never got to watch them like in person, but Sam does send me photos and stuff like that. Not of not of anything deaf wise, but he he, he has sent me bits and bobs but he never puts them on the net. He's all professional. But yeah, I would like to go and see some working dog do ratting one day, you know, because it's interesting to see. So I watch it on the video or whatever, but in person it's different. What, what, what impressed.

Not the dogs impressed me. But when you start smoking rat holes, you could have 100 rat holes there and the smoke will only come out three or four of them. Or you've got a run out in the field and it comes like 20 foot into the field, an escape run, and you see the smoking up there and then you put a smoke there and then it comes out different holes and you think it comes out everywhere because yeah, my mate was impressed last year because he's gamekeeper. He's been a gamekeeper for years and he virtually had like 3 different nests.

You put the smoker in, it went up that side, then he put the smoker in that side and the holes went that way. Then he put it in the middle and it just went perfectly in the middle. He got even, He was impressed and he's been doing that for years. Well, he is a pest controller anyhow. He was. Trained, trained the same as me, but but yeah, it's if you get the chance to go and see someone smoke an owl, go go and see. It's it's it's brilliant to watch. If you have, if you haven't, then see the dogs working.

They are fantastic. It's like I said, they're they're probably about the best, best controllers out. Bring back strychnine. I'll. Tell you if you if you missed, I'll tell you what, Terry, if you missed the episode with go go for girl from America. He does mole control and go for control all year round. It's a it's a whole business and she she just uses traditional trapping. But she said that locally to her, people still use and can get hold of strychnine that's in America. Yeah. Crazy, but she trapped.

But that's a good episode. If you ever want to go back and watch that one, it is. Yeah, excellent.

Have you got anything else to add?

Anything else you want to bring up to the world?

Not at the moment, no. You got anything, Matt? No, no, as I say, we're yeah, we're busy starting to think about bees and things like that now as we migrate from winter pests to to bees and summer, summer challenges. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah, we're doing a lot of business development work in the background as well. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm into all that now, Matt. I'm working on all that stuff. I am, I'm I'm going to a thing tomorrow at the Rutland Business Summit. Is that tomorrow? The that's the Think Rutland Business Business scheme and that's free, provided fall by the council that bought my camera as well.

That's good. Yeah, good, good. Yeah, taxpayer funded. Wow, taxpayer funded. Yeah. But you're already coming, Sean, haven't you? Oh yeah, exactly. So what is it exactly tomorrow? Is it an exhibition or? It's like it's not a seminar, but it's, it's like where loads of businesses go to or not. There's loads of talk you just listen to talks you do. And by the sounds of it, the the scheme's being extended. There's the business advisor that helped me. You can see it whenever you want, but said that they mentioned a snippet of what it's going to talk about.

It's going to talk about the scheme going into 2620262027. That tells me that the scheme's carrying on because it was meant to. It was meant to end in March. This was meant to be it, but I think it's being extended. So I'm going to do, I'm going to do another. I'm going to do a case study for them about about how I got the camera and how it's helped me. But at some point I will be in on the council socials. But they took a video of me and like, it is it is. How come you're so good at talking on the camera?

I did tell you I've got my own podcast weekly on video. Oh yeah, you did Because I messed it at first. I was going really slow and I started talking really fast. He says he stopped it. Pick 1. So he nailed it. Second time I did. But at some point I'll I'll end up on Rutland Council socials. I will. I will. Yeah, I will. So will you be able to apply for grant funding again for something else next year? Then, well, I'm hoping, I'm actually hoping that when he announces how the schemes going, I'm hoping he announces a few more grants.

I'll work something out. What? What? What next? You never know. It takes. For it now, haven't you? Well, he, he did say actually what the seminar, the sales forecasting seminar we did, he said this is the easiest grant to get. There was a 10 grand grand grant before and it wasn't as easy. A lot of people didn't get it, but he said this one here, the 2000 LB. One is very easy to get. It depends on their application criteria and things doesn't. It you've got to hit sustainable sustainability elements.

And yeah, although the camera does, it's like, what would if you didn't have the camera, what would you have to do? Well, in the old days, people dug the drains up and had a look, didn't they actually dug them up? Things like technically, if I didn't, if I didn't need things like the light hair, like for instance, say the you wouldn't need technically if you wanted to just look at the drains, you wouldn't need to use bait. So it's not going into the environment. He loved that. He says that's great, they'll love that.

So he knew exactly what they wanted to hear. Yeah, it did. And that that's what it's about, isn't it? He's ticking the boxes in your application. Well, to be fair, the bloke doing it actually helped you do it. So he, he, I literally send him copies and he'd tell me when it was perfected and then they'd go sound natural, put it out and do do that. And he and he said near enough you should get it. Yeah. So you are you looking at doing drain surveyors course as well or? Yeah, you've been on on your course haven't.

You well, not, not, not, not that man, not not that one, but have done Dave, Dave, you killed. Him, of course, haven't. You. Yeah, of course. Got to see how much work we get, Matt. The many I haven't, yeah, still got to try and get some proper jobs. I haven't got any yet. I've got interest for them but they keep dipping out as in not wanting to go forward, not even charging a massive amount so but I have added it to the radio advert so that's on 120 * a month. So I'm hoping it'll get into people's minds and think, oh, they could do the drinks, so how?

How did you find it? A radio advert? Has that been live for a little while now or? Yeah, it's gone live recently. It's been live for a couple of weeks probably. Yeah. You're measuring outcomes from that. You're measuring success rates or? Anything like that? I'll tell you why, because a lot of radio is. Have you ever heard of subliminal? Yeah. You know where you listen to a radio station all day and suddenly someone says to you, I need a pest control, I need to go open pest control. And a lot of them don't know where they heard it.

That's your problem. There's a lot of subliminal. A lot of people like hear it that much that when someone asks them and then they'll Google it and get me that way. It's hard to monitor. That is because we tried the pensioners discount for two years on that one. And I'll be honest out the whole time we removed it recently, One, one person said it for the discount.

But people have heard the advert, you see. Yeah. Well, that's a lot. But a lot of them sometimes can't remember what they heard. The advert you say this. Is the thing with marketing, isn't it? It's quite an interesting area, marketing. I love business development, marketing, all that sort of stuff. It's really interesting, pretty easy. It's looking where you spend your money, isn't it? And what return on investment you're getting. The radios, how hard you. Demonstrate that how you make that link back to what you're.

Saying it is what? Yeah, you've got to bite. You've got to bite the bullet sometimes, haven't you? Just just to find out. What it? It works best for you, yeah. Yeah, that's the only one that is hard to quantify because a lot of them don't always know where the earth is from some to some people, it's like it gets in their mindset. But yeah, I compress. Don't need Google. Yeah, but I I think it works. But it's hard to stay because a lot of times you ask people when they sometimes say the radio, but sometimes like I googled you and then when you get there, like I think I heard you on the radio initially, like I can't remember because I listened to Rutland and Stanford sounds, you see.

So that one's hard to quantify. Kurt Graham, thanks for popping in mate. I hope you're doing well. Yeah, that one's a little bit hard. But the the website I'm starting to get more enquiries because I've got I've got chat with the new ones. Didn't you? Yeah, yeah. It's not, it's not their work that's got the recent queries. It's my work. I've been upgrading the SEO and AEO. Have you Well. That will get your head around that Jason SEO and AEO so a a website. Just do mine from word of mouth and that's it.

AEO, it's basically optimal. AEO is optimising it for AI engines to pick it up basically. But but it it's working well because I GPT chat ChatGPT has helped in how to get high scores. But obviously I do check it and I make it look like it's not written by ChatGPT. My best I could, but sometimes it's weird that you got to word it a certain way and it can jump up five points into green, just one word change. It's so I've learnt a lot. I have, but it's things like that. But but yeah, it's all learning.

It's like business. I even put, you know, the CPD points, you know, the seminars to go to for the business thing. I put them down as CPDI. Do. Well, it is, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Especially that's what John said. John was saying about when he was on on this podcast, he did anything yourselves. If you ring somebody up on the phone to ask him for advice and you're on there an hour, you can write it down because Elliot. Elliot came up, you know, you know, Elliot, Elliot from, you know, Elliot from. I can't think off the top of my head.

And he came round to buy a, we had a bee. A bee. No bee vac. He bought it off. No. Elliot Mokes. Elliot Mokes. Yeah. He's he's just South of Leicester, isn't he? One of the villages somewhere like that, yeah. We have a bit of a clear eye in the shed and we sent it, send it to him. Do you, do you want it mate? Like dad bought it for £80 three, 4-5 years ago. He says I'll have it mate and we were chatting for about an hour and he's even put it down the CPD because we were talking about that much stuff.

Yeah. We were talking about Red Tractor, all sorts. Yeah, yeah. I used to do tractor years ago. Red Tractor sites. I don't know more. I do. I do task sites at the minute, only one 2, the 2 grain stalls, but they're tracked. They're tracked separately next to each other. But yeah. And he showed me the price of it online. She sold her about 150 LB news as well. But that only wants what you paid for it. So no, that's fair enough. They came over. Yeah, I got that. But yeah, yeah. Know Elliot well. Yeah, I've spoken to him a few times.

I've never met him. See, we've pulled over twice now. We have because because he's he's behind, he's behind me and I rang him. He says meet you at the car, car, big car park mate. And we and we and we and we had a chat. I I did exactly that. I saw him. I was driving into Leicester on a Friday evening for a night out and he was driving out. I saw him. So yeah, I can recall. Had a quick. Chat. Yeah, because I remember you. It went wrong because once you rang the company number, didn't you? He got through to my dad, and my dad didn't have a clue what you're on about.

He's like, I think you want Sean, but you've got my number now, haven't you? I think you have. I have, I think, yes, yeah. I think everyone's got your number. I think everyone. I've got. I'm really not bothered who has my number at all. It doesn't bother me. Yeah, it doesn't. Did you say, Jason, you don't. Did I hear you say don't have a website even? Nope, no, no, you go. No, it's just wordy mouse or yeah, yeah, that's it really. Wordy mouse. Or just I'd send a few flies out and I'm still busy.

I'm still busy. That's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, probably. Good. In the next few years, if it expands a bit more, like I've been doing it seven years by myself, whether I take anybody on or not to give me a hand, yeah, I'd start looking at it then. But but at the moment I'm just steady. I'm just yeah, he he's done really in note every day. You've done really well. It's like, tell you what, Matt, the Sam Tricky that came on the round table. Yeah, I put him on separately and he hasn't got a website.

He has, Yeah. And he's pure farm work. He's made his whole business of farms. He does he, he does a lot of these farms where you know, you have to be there the entire day. It is them kind of farms and it's all based off word of mouth for the farmers. That's got him all his work and he hasn't done, he hasn't even got a web. He's a BPCA member now. He's a, he's also joined the MPTA as well now, but but he's had all his work through word of mouth for the farmers. So it shows that you can do it you.

Can't. It's funny, isn't it within, within the confines of pest control that we all operate in so many different business models. Aren't they specialised in farms or I don't know, people specialising just in bed bugs or all sorts of different? Things. All so many different business models around all, all delivering in effect the same thing. Yeah. Just in in different ways or different, different customers, different end clients.

Yeah, it's a cracking business because I've since I've been self-employed, I've met that many pest controllers and they're really such nice people and you, you do learn a lot from them. I don't think one person knows everything and I don't think there's ever one answer to, to pest control. This is it answers. I totally agree. There's usually more than one way of doing something. And it doesn't mean one way is right, one way is wrong. Yeah. You're getting the same end result. That's what matters, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah. You can you can have a head scratchy moment one day, put it on the put it through your mate to in pass control and they just say, great, try it this way. Anything up Absolutely. Especially if you're self-employed and you're a low

sole trader and you're working by yourself. It's always good. I've got a few mates around Telford. We meet up, we have coffees and that and and have a chat and and yeah. Yeah, it really is important. The Tafa Mafia, well, it's. Yeah, yeah, because, because I got one of my mates rung me up and said, Jace, you're doing that ladies garden with all the rats. And I said yeah, yeah, I know. He said, well, one of my clients have seen all them rats in that garden. I said, yeah, I know, he said, but they've been coming up to there.

I've told them you're on top of it. I said, yeah, I've got to get me rifles out. I've got like the shooting up there because it's a non-toxic site so I can't Chuck poison about nothing like that and they've gone a bit trap shy now. Lovely. So I think, yeah, I think I've already dragged about 40 rats out of there through traps. But the last time there was nothing in the traps, but there was a lot of rats there. So I think the rifle has to come out, I think. Yeah. But again, he's getting the end result.

Isn't it using different methods, different tools to to get the end result that you need? That's it. That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you enjoy, if you, if you enjoy it you, you get pretty good. Makes it easier then, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. If you enjoy your hobby, you'll never work a day in your life. Exactly. That's true. So you, Jack, sorry, Jackie, could you explain what you mean about CPD? Do you mean if you meet another pest controller you can claim points? If you were the British pest register?

Just self register and put who you met up with. Put how long it was like a point for an hour, hour and a half 1.5 then put in what you chatted about, press submit done. There you go with basis, I don't think, I don't know if you can do that, I don't. You can't sell register. Differently, No, you can't sell register. So if you are with a British pass register, you can't do that for anything. If you read a book or anything, the time log it, a magazine log it, you get all these points from various different things.

Oh, you're basically slow. Oh no, you've got no hope then. To be fair, you don't. Think it develops you professionally, isn't it? Yeah, it does your. Knowledge your skills. Because like what people don't get is it is CPD, but it doesn't have to be. Obviously you have to do your crew points at the end of the year, but the rest of it is professional development of your business. It can be business development. But Jackie, I don't I don't think you can do. If you were to meet up with a kill germ Rep, then you could actually get CPD for that, that conversation.

But not yeah, if you did move over to the British press register, you could do that. I'm not telling you what to do, but there's options. But basis you may struggle. You could ask them. You could. Yeah, with Basis, I, I, I think I'd mainly like go to events, put your Basis number down or you read the magazines, they've got the tests in the little quiz. Yeah, that. Really good, I can't use them now. Yeah, so, so yeah. Or. And that's. They get the six points off you if you they listen to your. Yes, I will.

That will go. Soon. Yeah, that will be happening, Jackie. Soon you'll be able to have six points for this podcast. I'm just building them up so I can send them an e-mail with what people would have learnt, because you only ever get one point, no matter how long, per podcast with basis. So I emailed them in and once I've actually got the codes, I'll let people know. That's why they've been delayed. I'm waiting to build a list up. I gave them ten last year. I don't understand why they gave me 10 codes, because then they go, well, you can only use six of them.

Why give me 10 codes then? You know, it is what it is, yeah. Well, at least you can get points for it. That's it. Well, yeah, it's good. It's good that they recognise my podcast as well as as a CPD thing. So do you guys always struggle for points or do you get plenty of points or yourselves? I've already got 28. I've already got 28, mate. What about yeah? Yeah, through the British best race, so I've already got my certificate for next year. Yeah, see, I I never struggle easy. Always. I do loads of stuff outside, whether it's training courses, whatever.

Yeah. So you, so you're, you're also on a self register model with the BPCA, so you can register anything you learn. So yeah, it is so easy. Yeah, no, it is. Oh, I know, Jackie just said. Did you say you're in Telford? Yes, yeah. How you going?

Another one during your coffee morning. Yeah, yeah. By all means, yeah. I normally go with Nick Brand from Primary Pest Care, RW Pest Pollutions, Rob, which makes up with coffees and I sell my product to Sean Westlake who's at APC. I've gone down and and did a training morning with these lads showing them how to fit them. But yeah, it's I know we're all rivals, but we're all in the same business at the end of the day. And if you can. Exactly. If you can join together. And have something, have a, have a have a chat.

And that's because it can be lonely. Like I said, it can be lonely. Mental health does play a big part in this, especially if you're sole trader. Just have a chat with people. Do you know I? I take exactly the same view around here. I know all the all the other pest controllers around here or well, most of them. And yeah, we all get on great. That's. Good to hear that is there you go. She's had a newer pest control name company. Bridgnorth Pest Control. If. You ever want a coffee, Jackie? Just give us a shout.

I don't mind if I get 10 minutes. I can always shoot down to Bridgnorth. That's not that far away. Yeah, that's nice. But sorry I interrupted you there. You. No, it's all right. I I have got to go down to Ditton priors soon. Yeah, but no, Matt, you register yours through self register through the BPCA, don't you? So you definitely wouldn't struggle, but it's just so easy. You're self registered, but it's the Internet. It's not like you're cheating. You're actually, you're actually doing the work.

It's something people say, oh, 20 points is so hard. No, they're not. Surely. Inquisitive human nature. We all want to be learning and improving and developing and growing. And it's, yeah, it's not difficult, is it? It's what we should. All be doing I think he's finding it more difficult is the old, older people, the older generation of pest controllers.

I do. Figure out everything yet and so so yeah. I do get it because it's a bit like I'm in a trade body. It is a big chance for some companies. I'm in a trade body. I have to do CPD. I'm not in a trade body. I can just do one certificate every five years. I can see people's point, you know? I'm not under any illusions, you know. Yeah, it's down to the individual, isn't it? What they exactly what they like to be, what they like to do. You can make it as easy, as hard as you want it to be. Absolutely, yeah.

I'm going to apply for Trust Mark soon. I can apply for it now because NPTA is now in Trust Mark. So all the members, if they wish, can, can join it and so can you, Jason, if you wish. Yeah, I know, I know. The NPTA has been absolutely brilliant. They've, they've come on leaps and bounds for me since I, I was with the BPCA last couple of years of the council, but before that I was always NPTA. Yeah. And all it was was a card in your wallet. I had loads, years and years worth of cards in my wallet.

Yeah, nothing with with anything like that. It's bit like CPD, isn't it? I think you often get out what you put in. If you don't put anything in and you just look at a card or whatever else, yeah, yeah, you're not going to get much from it. But if you look at the opportunities and you engage with stuff, you'll get more from it. Exactly. There's all this information on there to help you and make your business a little bit better and and easier. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, everything's there and yeah, there is.

It is. It is there to make it. Easy. I mean it's the the the also the I'm still using it but I'm not fully using it yet. But the there's a workplace risk management system that have got WRM on there alone just like 10 points worth a year. It's like asbestos awareness, PPE, lifting boxes, all these different courses on health and safety. That's 10, that's 10 points a year to start with included in membership and you've got all the, all the rest. So it's not difficult to get loads of points really.

No, it's not. A lot of people moan them but I'm not saying every everyone but it is. I got 75 last year. Yeah, that's good. Got to see if I can beat it.

Listen to your own podcasts. Yeah, I could do that, but that was really cheat. I got no order. Yeah, technically speaking, I do learn from, I do learn from others. So I should. But I just, I don't feel right. I don't feel right by doing it because I really would. I really would if if I did that I'd I'd I'd easily get over 100, probably 150 or more 200 points. But if you don't need the points, no point. Oh yeah, exactly, exactly. But yeah, thanks everyone. I recommend a good chat there. Yeah, it was.

A good chat. Thank you very much. Thanks, Matt. Nice to meet you. Thanks very much, Sean. Good to meet you, Jason. I'm just going to, I'm just going to drop, drop a code that people can get. I'm going to write. This one down, Sean. No, no, you're not going to. No, I'm just going to call this. Can I, can I just say anybody listening to this, get out there and talk to your, your local elected members at the local authorities about their pest control services. Because the only way we'll ever change anything with, with funding a pest control in local government, things like that, is by targeting those elected members who make the decisions about which services they fund and how they fund them.

If you disagree with it, get out there and talk to the elected politicians, the local local councillors. Have the conversations with them. No, it's definitely true. It is. I thought I'd make the word cancel because we were talking about them. There you go. Yeah. You know, So what? You take what? You're obviously not familiar with it, Matt. British pass register. So Sean Mooney's register. Yeah, I am aware. I know Sean and I am aware of the the pass register. Yeah, he's he's made a new system though.

So if you're a CPD provider, instead of the provider having to verify your points, you can go to a where it asks you a question. So say someone gets counsel, right, the 1.5 points it will be will be automatically awarded to them on getting the the question right. So you could have a quiz of 7-8 questions on there if you wanted to or more. And you can get points straight away. So, so the provider doesn't have to actually keep verifying it because I got fed up with that because I couldn't tell who was actually listening to the podcast and who was just click, click, click, clicking them.

So all the last years are actually on there now, but you've got to you've got to answer a few quiz quiz questions. So then once I don't just give a close to. My view on stuff like that, if you're if you're doing stuff like that, you're only cheating yourself at the end of the day, yeah. Oh yeah, it's true. But I could never vote. I I verified them, but I had no real way of knowing if they really did do it. But a lot of people are doing are doing best perspectives. I tell you what, I I should see if I can do a leaderboard.

I don't know if that would be allowed, but the, the big city FM, they're really going for it to a point they are on, on on my pocket. So yeah, but a lot of them are there's loads of companies I've never heard. I've even got people from a company called, is it Pest Stop? They're doing my point as well. Pest Stop. I think they're a supplier. They I think they make traps or something. But I can see, I can see exactly who's done them, which is pretty good. It is. Yeah, it is. But so anyone that wants this points, give me a chance.

I'll do it straight after the podcast, but you'll be 1.5 points and I might have enough soon to submit a load of codes to the basis and I'll let people know I will. But thanks everyone. Thanks. Thanks Jason and Matt for coming on. It's been. Fun.

Thanks everyone. I'll end the stream now. I will just stay on, stay on for a minute, right? Thanks everyone.